Mike: 00:08

Welcome to Speak the Truth, a podcast devoted to giving biblical truth for educating, equipping, and encouraging the individual and local church in counseling and discipleship. Hello. Hello. Hello. We are still going strong.

Mike: 00:23

This is the gospel in counseling part two. I'm in the studio still with Peter part two. Shauna is not with us nor is Jeremy. Peter, how are still doing? You good?

Peter: 00:34

I'm still doing good.

Mike: 00:35

Alright. Still doing good as thirty seconds ago.

Peter: 00:37

Yeah. Hope our listeners didn't touch that dial. Right?

Mike: 00:40

Yeah. So as we were mentioning, this is part two of gospel and counseling and what is the just the gospel counseling. And, really, part one, if if you're just tuning in, part one, I would encourage you to go back and listen to it. Part one was really just establishing what is the gospel in counseling. Is it seeing it beyond just this one dimensional Romans road crossing the bridge on a napkin sort of thing?

Mike: 01:01

And not to take anything away from that, that is those are necessary. Again, Romans 10 talks very clearly on that. Outside of that, we wanted to focus on the gospel in counseling situations. And so with that, Peter and I are gonna continue to go through this. And, again, this is part of the training that we did this past Saturday.

Mike: 01:20

Truth Renewed is a biblical counseling training center for ABC, Association of Biblical Counselors. We go through the equipped council certification, and we're a training center for that. And in our current class, what we're doing right now, we actually have this class, and we have another class in Rockwall. We're doing it in Keller and Rockwall right now. Two classes.

Mike: 01:38

Anyway, we are going through this, and so we wanted to share it with you guys. And as Peter mentioned last episode, just outside of people not having a very good understanding of the gospel or as we mentioned in the scriptures before, a different gospel. But as Peter reminded us that sometimes they just need to be reminded of the gospel. And we talked a little bit about just gospel drift and the reality of the gospel in our lives. Again, with that, we'll we'll start here with the just the gospel in counseling situations.

Mike: 02:07

Peter, you wanna take this?

Peter: 02:09

Sure. So what I did was just think about the people that come in, right, and what kind of things they might be struggling, and then what would you say. Right? And so this first first example is so for counselors who feel that the Christian life is too hard, that they're just it's not worth it. And so couple verses, Galatians three eight nine, talking about how the gospel was preached to Abraham, and there was a there was a blessing that was promised because of that.

Peter: 02:31

And then John ten ten where Jesus comes to give us abundant life, that people, sometimes they get worn out and they forget that there there is a huge feast coming that we have a Ephesians one talks about an inheritance that we have. And to understand that that keep on. Stay strong. Keep going. Move forward.

Peter: 02:50

It's worth it. And so that that's the first example.

Mike: 02:53

No. That's good. And I would even I would contribute to that too. I think that's a good point, Peter. Here's a point with that in mentioning John ten ten that the thief comes to steal, kill, and destroy.

Mike: 03:02

And what's interesting is people, when they come in, they're feeling done, exhausted. Life is hard. That's typically why they're here or seeing us. They're not thinking about the abundant life that Christ promised. Yeah.

Mike: 03:14

They're not at all. As a matter of fact, it's hard for them to think that he actually came to give them that because of what they're currently experiencing. Yep. Just remember that, again, when it comes to gospel drift, it's when people are coming in, seeing us, things that they're struggling with, they're having a hard time seeing the truth of the gospel because of the of how hard life is.

Peter: 03:33

Yeah. Life is hard even when you're not abused or divorced or whatever it might be. It's it life is hard.

Mike: 03:38

Yeah. Yeah. So it it is and that that would be a good we talked about corollaries, right, last episode and just corollaries of the gospel and the truth of the gospel. But for this person who is struggling with just maybe they can't find any satisfaction in work or so they're stuck and his life's just hard and seems monotonous. Okay.

Mike: 03:56

What is Christ's promise? So what's the benefits of the gospel that are counter to what you're currently experiencing right now? So it's just, again, just these little corollaries in the gospel that really do have real time value in what somebody's going through. So Good. Yeah.

Mike: 04:12

So put it. So, again, for counselors who feel that the Christian life is too hard, that that would be some ideas for that. And then the next one, Peter?

Peter: 04:20

Yeah. So the next one is basically for counselors who worry that they need to do more to be assured of salvation. They're not measuring up, and that's a terrible burden because we're free in Christ. We've been forgiven. And Galatians three fourteen says that so that in Christ Jesus, the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles that we might receive the promised spirit through faith.

Peter: 04:39

That through faith, not through your works, you are sealed with the spirit. And the spirit is the one who empowers us, who explains the mind of God to us, who transforms us, and that's all through faith. It's not through works. And so, again, to encourage those who are weary, right, to lift them up, to walk with them, and sometimes let them lean on you. Right?

Peter: 04:58

That's what sometimes biblical counseling is.

Mike: 05:01

Yeah. Oh, that's good. The gospel says we need to forgive others. That's the majority of the people that come in.

Peter: 05:05

Yeah. The yes. People, a lot of times, are bitter. They've been beat up. Then maybe their family, when they grew up, was abusive, or they're currently like you said earlier on the last episode, my wife and I do a lot of domestic abuse counseling, and that's hard.

Peter: 05:19

Just really hard. And so we're asked we're told to forgive others as Christ has forgiven us. Now since I brought up domestic abuse, let me disqualify that. Forgiveness is not the same as reconciliation. Yeah.

Peter: 05:31

Just because you forgive doesn't mean the hurt's gone, and there's no consequences.

Mike: 05:35

So Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Grace doesn't negate consequence.

Peter: 05:39

Right.

Mike: 05:39

Yeah. That's good. And it is because oftentimes I was actually on a phone call today. I was talking with somebody, and this person will know who they are when they listen to this podcast. But one of the things we were talking about that he and he was asking me as far as what we take into counseling, what are some what are some regardless of what somebody's going through, what are the things that we're gonna try to apply to every we're gonna apply to everybody?

Mike: 06:01

And the gospel's it. Right? And it's and here's the thing. Once you do your data gathering and you find out what's really going on with somebody, you find the the specifics in it, you find the kind of the generalities around it, all all those sorts of things. Somewhere in the narrative, there's gonna be some unforgiveness.

Mike: 06:16

There's gonna be some things that need to be brought to the light that need to be forgiven, where and I know Shauna practices this quite a bit, and we do this in marriage counseling where, you know, if we're going back and forth with a couple and we can tell that there's some bitterness, and bitterness is a result of unforgiveness. Like, they're not forgiving what's been done. So all of a sudden, we'll stop and we'll bring up when was the last time you guys asked or looked turned to each other and actually asked forgiveness for each other? Clearly, you guys are going back and forth, so you guys are taking ownership to some extent, but you keep wanting to have the other person realize that it's really more on them, not me. And so in those moments, we're like, no.

Mike: 06:50

It it really is about just forgiving them.

Peter: 06:52

So in in every session, someone comes in with a specific problem

Mike: 06:56

Yeah.

Peter: 06:56

My main goal as a counselor is to draw them to Christ, is their Christ likeness, because that's real hope. Marriage couple, they come in. You could give them seven steps to communication Yep. Five steps to to forgive each other. You can tell them, hey.

Peter: 07:11

Take pauses. Take a time out for twenty minutes, whatever, but that's not real hope. Right? Real hope is when they are walking with Christ even more. And so that's my main goal.

Peter: 07:21

Now, obviously, you can't ignore their problems. Right? And that's I think that's where the idea for this came from, this training session, was that you have to be skillful in weaving the gospel in to their issue as you can't solve their problems all the time.

Mike: 07:36

Right?

Peter: 07:37

Someone comes in, and you can't fix the hurt that's been done to them. You can't fix the hurt that's being done to them. Right? But you can draw them to the one who can fix it. And so that's my main goal.

Peter: 07:47

But you have to be very sensitive, patient, and kind as you weave it in.

Mike: 07:52

No. That's good. That's good. And I did find it, by the way. It's Proverbs nineteen eleven.

Mike: 07:57

Good sense makes one slow to anger, and it is his glory to overlook an offense. Like, that would be a corollary to forgiveness. Yeah. Because we've been forgiven. God overlooked the offense in his glory through his son.

Mike: 08:09

It's awesome. So forgiveness, it's a big deal. And I think sometimes just as much as we can water down and take the gospel for granted, we take forgiveness for granted. We act like we are, oh, yeah. I know forgiveness is.

Mike: 08:20

Do we though give us cause to pause and really think about the real implications to forgive and the reality of that? That's good. What's this next one you have, Peter?

Peter: 08:28

It's freedom in Christ. Right? So counselors who come in, sometimes they need to be reminded they don't have to earn God's favor. Right? It's closely tied to the ones we've already talked about.

Peter: 08:36

Yeah. But Galatians five one, it says, for freedom, Christ has set us free. Stand firm therefore and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery. The yoke of slavery is sin and any other gospel. Don't submit to that because we're free in Christ.

Peter: 08:48

His yoke is easy. We have a god who calls us his children, and so we are. Right? Paul exclaims, he can't believe it. Right?

Mike: 08:54

Yeah.

Peter: 08:55

It is that is earth shaking. Right? News that we're free. We're not we're not out there. He doesn't keep us outside.

Peter: 09:02

He brings us in. We have freedom. Yeah. And counseling so often need to know that because they've heard mixed messages throughout their life, maybe maybe bad theology, bad family, whatever, and they're trapped, and it's we're free.

Mike: 09:14

Oh, that's good. It's good. You got this next one. We progressively come to experience all the blessing of the gospel.

Peter: 09:19

You do have we have believers. Most of our clients are at least churched.

Mike: 09:23

Yeah.

Peter: 09:23

And they can be concerned about their lack of spiritual maturity that there's they continue to struggle with the same sin. Right? You get someone with addiction or depression or something like that, and they're gonna they're gonna think I should be better than this. Why am I still struggling? And yet Philippians two twelve and thirteen says, therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now not only as in my presence, but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Peter: 09:46

For it is God who works in you both to will and to work for his good pleasure. So there is a there's a process. Right? You work it out. God's working it out in you at the same time.

Peter: 09:55

Right? So it's not like you get saved and, oh, we're instantly done. My salvation testimony, so to speak, is pretty uninspiring. I got out of bed one night. I prayed that God would come in my life that I wanted to be his, wanted to serve him, forgive my sins, and I got back in bed.

Peter: 10:11

No no change visibly or didn't even feel that different. Right? But God changes us over time, and that's that that is that's a blessing. Right? That he doesn't leave us like he found us.

Mike: 10:21

Yeah.

Peter: 10:21

That he changes us, and we have to remind counselees to be patient with that process.

Mike: 10:26

Yeah. Their lack of spiritual maturity. Yeah. That's a good one. And, really, this would this is kinda street level sanctification.

Mike: 10:33

This verse right here. It's God who works in you both to will and to work, which is interesting because the willing part is he again, as second Corinthians says that we're new creations in Christ Jesus. So we have a new nature. We have new affections. I actually desire as a new believer, as a new creation, I desire the things of God, God's will.

Mike: 10:52

I desire to do good. I desire to not sin against him, as David would say. So he's our will has been changed, and so our affections change. And then as our will changes, so does our work internally. But it's god who's doing that in a way.

Mike: 11:06

And what's it for? His good pleasure and for our good. Yeah. And we know it's for our good because of what what scripture says everywhere else.

Peter: 11:13

Right? He's a good god who desires to shower his grace on us. He's generous in ways we can't even imagine. And so why wouldn't we want to draw closer to him?

Mike: 11:22

Yeah. Yeah. That's good. So, again, that that would it would be a good one for consulates who are depressed or really about their lack of spiritual maturity. And then, we talked about in the first podcast briefly.

Mike: 11:33

It was really more in passing, but the reality of suffering. Suffering proves the need for the gospel. We've got second Corinthians four seventeen. For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison. And, Peter, something you were talking about in class, I'm speaking, so I'll say it for you.

Peter: 11:51

Please, please.

Mike: 11:51

Hopefully, hopefully, hopefully, I got it right. But what you were talking about, the fact that Paul saw fit to call this light and momentary. And to somebody who's suffering and how long they've been suffering, if they have chronic pain, really light and momentary, they're not thinking that. It feels like it's forever. When will it stop?

Mike: 12:07

And it's I can't stand it. It's consuming me. And this is coming from somebody who's been who was shipwrecked, stoned, you know what I mean, who's been through it for the sake of the gospel. And I added a little extra to what you said. But on the back end of what you're saying on that, which is good, which is the second part of this verse that is preparing us for eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, the reality is suffering has a purpose, and that's specific to the gospel.

Mike: 12:30

There's no other religion that has a gospel that focuses on suffering that says you will suffer, but count it joy, as James would say. That God's preparing through this suffering something for us in his glory that we'll get to experience it. And now at first read, like, people aren't thinking that. When they're struggling and they're they're focused on their affliction, they're certainly not thinking it's light and momentary. So this is where, again, this would be a corollary to the reality of the gospel that Paul is talking about.

Mike: 13:00

He's giving them he's giving them a theology for suffering in this right here.

Peter: 13:04

Yeah. And I would say as believers, as biblical counselors, we need to have a very solid theology of suffering.

Mike: 13:09

Yeah.

Peter: 13:10

And there are parts of the world that probably have a much better

Mike: 13:12

Yeah.

Peter: 13:12

Theology than we do here in Texas.

Mike: 13:14

Yeah. We have it in theory. It sounds great. Yeah. Makes me feel great.

Peter: 13:17

But there are brothers and sisters out there who are really struggling, and they've got a much better theology than we do. I do, excuse me, a lot of mission work in Romania, and I've got a good friend over there who who was a young man under communism. And he talks about what they went through, right, to get by a loaf of bread, but he also talks about how great the church was, that they would meet for three hours and just singing and praying and preaching. So he's got a solid theology of suffering. And we as counselors, we need to develop that because everybody who walks that door is suffering.

Peter: 13:47

And if we can point them to the idea that suffering is sanctification, right, it's God's will for you to count all joy. Now, again, this is where we have to be very careful. Right? You can't just

Mike: 13:58

Lead with that.

Peter: 13:59

Someone who's got some kind of chronic pain condition. You can't say, oh, it's just light and momentary. Just wait. You have to be very sensitive, very compassionate, but that is the message. Right?

Peter: 14:07

That that this suffering all of us go through some of the different degrees. Right? Is it is God working in our lives. Yeah. That he's not forgotten us.

Peter: 14:16

It's actually him working. And so that to me, it's critical that we talk about that. And I think, really, not just counselors, but I think the whole church needs to be understanding this.

Mike: 14:24

Yeah. And so, again and that's really good, Peter. And so this, again, would be for counselors who are suffering from sin of others or simply just living in a broken fallen world. Right? There's the general sense and scope of the broken world that we find ourselves that we live in, but then there's the specifics of the individuals and those in our lives over our lifetime that have sinned against us.

Mike: 14:44

Obviously, there's been some measure of sin for a lot of people where it was severe and for others, maybe not so much. But the reality of all that comes back, and it really comes back, Peter, to what you were talking about before, and we'll get to it again. But just the reality of the I call it the sushi chef. Sushi chef. There we go.

Mike: 15:00

But with the cut and the blowfish that he has to be very meticulous, and he has to know where to cut. Because if he doesn't, it's gonna poison the meat, and ultimately, somebody could die if they weren't aware of it. And, obviously, that would be tragic. And so is the same thing with the using your theology of suffering. You can have a you could have a theology of suffering, but how you apply that in the counseling room, that's where that Yep.

Mike: 15:20

That application gets real.

Peter: 15:22

That's a great point. Right? You could really do some harm Yep. By bringing these verses up. And Yep.

Peter: 15:27

And or you could bring life

Mike: 15:29

Yeah.

Peter: 15:29

To someone Yeah. To help them see beyond. Yeah. It's just how skilled are you Yeah. To be.

Mike: 15:34

And that and that's good. And that takes time. That's not a first session you're you're thumping them with that. They certainly need it, but there's certainly a point in time. This is a huge one.

Mike: 15:42

I think we're the gospel addresses sin at at at face value on on the front end, but oftentimes, we lose sight of the back end of the reality of suffering in the gospel. And Christ technically suffered more than any of us.

Peter: 15:57

And I would say that, least around here that I think even the evangelical churches, we sometimes have unstated and really unacknowledged prosperity gospel bent. Right? If I'm suffering, well, why is that? That something's wrong. I'm being faithful.

Peter: 16:12

Why is God doing this? That if I'm faithful and I tithe and go to church and do all these things, then I should have a good life. Life should turn out well. Right? And it doesn't.

Peter: 16:21

I mean, there was a very significant event in our lives where we obeyed God, and it turned out disastrous. But through that, God brought us closer to him in ways we never would have experienced otherwise. It doesn't always turn up roses when you obey. And so that theology of suffering to say the suffering is even necessary. It is necessary because that's how God shapes us Yeah.

Peter: 16:45

Is critical.

Mike: 16:46

Yeah. That's I keep going I keep thinking of Proverbs, some of the Proverbs, and it's that last thing that you were saying where the cauldron and fire and the furnace and for suffering and god test the heart. Like, we we don't think of it. We don't think of our suffering that way.

Peter: 17:00

It was a bad thing Yeah. And something that to be avoided at all costs.

Mike: 17:04

Yeah.

Peter: 17:05

And I'm not saying go pursue suffering. Yeah. But if that's what God brings in your life, make sure you don't sin trying to get out of it.

Mike: 17:11

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's the point that that Hebrews is making in chapter 12 too, discipline. But it's not a that's the thing. So there is correlation with suffering and discipline, and that's part of conforming us to the image of Christ.

Mike: 17:25

So there's a lot that could be whole another podcast.

Peter: 17:27

And first Peter talks about how that's that discipline, that suffering is is shaping your faith, and that's much more valuable than anything here on Earth.

Mike: 17:34

Yeah. That's that that's where the gospel preaches, but you gotta be pretty deep to be getting there at that level. And that's but eventually, that and that's the beautiful thing about counseling because eventually you will get there. Sometimes, lord willing. Sometimes it doesn't.

Mike: 17:48

But

Peter: 17:48

If they keep coming back.

Mike: 17:49

Yeah. But, again, so this this really would be for, just again, the fact that we live in a broken world. And then the next one is capital h hope. You know? First Peter one thirteen, therefore, preparing your minds for action and being sober minded, set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Christ Jesus or Jesus Christ.

Mike: 18:10

And this being for counselors who are losing hope, and that's the thing that the world is not presenting. And this is actually a perfect opportunity for the local church to start raising up biblical counseling ministries within the church because the world has been trying to act like it can offer hope, whether it's through giving you more things or here we are talking about suffering where the human heart is always trying to maximize pleasure and minimize pain. The world is always promising a lot, whether it's through some sort of pill that will either add to or take away or science can deliver on some level, but it can never fully give capital h hope, which is only found in Christ. And that's really at the end of the day what we're presenting, and that's the reality of the gospel in counseling.

Peter: 18:53

I mean, that that verse, first Peter one thirteen, is one of my favorite verses. Right? Because it says, think clearly about this. Okay? Be sober minded and then prepare before I'm playing.

Peter: 19:02

Think about this ahead of time. Put your hope solely on Jesus Christ. Even in the church, we tend to wanna give hope in other places. Right? Oh, your kids will grow out of it.

Peter: 19:13

It's not that bad. It'll pass. The next job will fix it. Whatever. And I'm not saying all those things aren't good, but they're not where we put our hope.

Peter: 19:21

They're not where we should put our lives. I I use this example often of a load zoned bridge. Okay? So they build bridges, and the architects and the engineers plan for a certain amount of traffic and a certain amount of weight to go on them. Right?

Peter: 19:35

And so a lot of times out smaller roads, you're gonna have a bridge that's only zoned for, say, 20,000 pounds or 30,000 pounds. And so you you take one of these big direct gravel trucks and you drive across it, it's gonna collapse. And that's analogous to us putting our hope in something that can't bear its weight. Our hope cannot be in our children. Our hope cannot be in our marriage or our job or our church.

Peter: 19:56

Right? Our activities of the church. Our hope has to be fully on Jesus Christ. And that's part of the gospel. Right?

Peter: 20:02

That only through him do we have salvation, not through anything else.

Mike: 20:06

That's good. That's like Romans one that, you know, got me thinking about all these corollaries to what we're saying, but it's you know, what you're talking about that that you if your kids are your hope, basically, anything in creation is your hope, it's gonna fail you. And that's essentially the reality of Romans chapter one. The the great struggle for man as we worship and serve creation as opposed to the creator. And And we do that so easily.

Mike: 20:27

Oh, yeah.

Peter: 20:27

We slip into that even as believers. Yeah. And that's why it takes each other to remind each other to come alongside, hey. You know what? Let's go this way.

Mike: 20:36

Yeah. And that bridge is indestructible. Indestructible. Eternal, omnipotent. Eternally indestructible.

Mike: 20:44

Man, that's some hope right there. This next one, we're not doomed to repeat our mistakes forever. Yeah. What are you what are you going for there, Peter?

Peter: 20:51

I think you again, this got the idea that someone comes in and they struggle with the same thing over and over. Why can't I fix this? Why do I keep acting this way towards my kids, toward my spouse, whatever it might be? And Corinthians five seventeen says, therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away.

Peter: 21:07

Behold, the new has come. That we are new, and we're growing into that or we're being transformed, and we're not gonna see it completely here ever. But when we go to heaven, sin's done away with. So you're not gonna be struggle with that same thing forever. Again, people need hope, but they need real hope.

Peter: 21:26

Right? Not the here's, again, seven steps to beating whatever, beating addiction or

Mike: 21:32

Yeah.

Peter: 21:33

It it is here is true hope. Here is Jesus Christ who died to save you because he loves you so much, and he's gonna transform you. So come to him, participate in that process, be open to him. Again, that that's where we can live life. If we go around handing out false hope or weak hope, that's not gonna do it.

Peter: 21:53

Yeah. It's just not gonna do it.

Mike: 21:54

Yeah. No. That's good. So in this next one, you're valuable because god said you're available. Yeah.

Mike: 21:59

Valuable. Valuable. There we go.

Peter: 22:02

For you to say. Yeah. So first John three, we mentioned it earlier about how god calls us his children. He thinks we're valuable, so he calls us his children. Not we don't just get to come in the house.

Peter: 22:13

Right? We get to come on up to the throne because we're his children. And people need to know that there's really nothing good in me. There's nothing good in you. We're just a mess until God put something good in us.

Peter: 22:26

That the spirit comes in, he starts to transform us, and it's only because of him that we have any value. These the self esteem movement, the feel good about yourself, it's truce mixed in with a bunch of lies. It is you are important to God, therefore, are important. Right? And that's why we can go and we can evangelize to people because they're important to God.

Peter: 22:46

Right? They're made in his image. We can protect the unborn. Mhmm. We are pro life because they're made in the image that that god thinks they're valuable.

Peter: 22:54

That's why we can protect the aged and minister to them because they are valuable. Until god decides to take them home, people are valuable. And and who feel alone or hated by their family or society or whatever, they need to have that hope.

Mike: 23:09

Yeah. Yeah. That's really good. And then through that, the next one we have, the gospel gives us higher goals. This is good.

Mike: 23:14

First Corinthians fifteen nineteen. If in Christ we have hope, in this life only, we're all of people most to be pitied. Yeah. It's the resurrection. It's the reality of the resurrection.

Mike: 23:24

Christ didn't just die for our sins, but he defeated death. He rose again. Salvation, the gospel is threefold. It's justification. It's sanctification, and it's glorification.

Mike: 23:33

We will rise in the same way that he did, but that's not for this life. It's for the next life. And regardless of your eschatological position, the reality is that when we die and he decides to come back to consummate all things. That's when we'll be reunited in our bodies as he was as he walked the earth. And I love it in John and Luke where he goes and he gets a fish, and he's eating fish and bread sitting down with the disciples.

Mike: 24:00

He was digesting food. He's like saying, hey. Look at my hands. Look at my feet. Still a body.

Mike: 24:04

It's a good reality. There's no other truth out there, gospel truth, that promises resurrection. Right.

Peter: 24:12

Resurrection, where we're still us. Yes. We're changed.

Mike: 24:16

Yeah. Yeah.

Peter: 24:16

Yep. So councilees who come in and they're focused too much on this life. Right? Not that this life is nothing. Right?

Peter: 24:23

God wouldn't have us here if it was worthless, but that they're focused too much on winning here and what's going on here, and they're pursuing the wrong things

Mike: 24:33

Yep.

Peter: 24:33

To pursue Christ and his kingdom. The idea of the prodigal price or things like that, that it's worth everything.

Mike: 24:41

I thought you're talking about a Mormon book there

Peter: 24:43

for a second. Nope. Not that one.

Mike: 24:45

So That book ain't welcome in these parts.

Peter: 24:47

The parable of the pro but just to help them change their focus. And maybe it's just reminding them, hey. Maybe you're getting off track. Let's go this way. In my sessions, I'm I try to come alongside people.

Peter: 24:58

Yeah. And I say, let's go together. Let's both become more Christ like through these sessions.

Mike: 25:03

Yeah. That's good. That's good. And this next one, you wanna grab this next one, Peter?

Peter: 25:06

Yeah. Yeah. So the gospel calls us to change our behavior. So you will have counselees who come in, and they don't wanna give up their sin. Right?

Peter: 25:13

They don't say that right away, but over time, when you start to confront them, and they're they just they're not ready to give it up. They like it. They like being bitter or hating somebody. They like their drinking or their carousing or whatever it might be, and they don't wanna give it up. Right?

Peter: 25:30

And yet Colossians three nine ten talks about putting on the new self, the new man. Right? That we're whole different. We are different. We are not the same.

Peter: 25:38

We are born again, and we're born into a new kingdom. The bible calls us ambassadors. We're this is not our we're going somewhere else, and so be different.

Mike: 25:46

Yeah.

Peter: 25:46

Act different. Don't act like you were. You are changed, and be different. And so that's the gospel. Right?

Peter: 25:52

That we're we are saved from that past life, and now we're born again into something new. And so people need to see that, and they need be reminded.

Mike: 26:01

Yeah. That's good. Just a quick summary on some of those things that we were touching on in this episode is the gospel is for those who feel that the Christian life is too hard, those who worry that they need to do more to have assurance of salvation, those who don't want to forgive, and those who need to be reminded that they don't have to earn God's favor, Also, those who are depressed about their lack of spiritual maturity and as well as suffering, suffering from the sin of others in a broken world. Also, those who are losing hope, those who continue to make the same mistakes, those who feel worthless or hated, those who are putting too much emphasis, as Peter was just saying, put too much emphasis on this life, and those who want to continue sinning. Paul obviously makes that point in Romans pretty clear, makes it addresses that argumentation all too well.

Mike: 26:46

And as you said before, we just we need to be we need to be reminded of this when it comes to gospel drift within gospel drift. And here's the thing. As counselors, we can tell if somebody just needs to be reminded or it's just a it's a general correction, a soft approach, or something that they just need to be reminded versus, like, an admonishment of sin. Is it a correction? So we can apply the gospel in those different ways as well.

Mike: 27:09

And, again, we talked about the basics or the simple description of, you know, that God loves you, that sin separates you. Jesus is substitute substitutionary sacrifice that he died in our place, and as a result, forgiveness was given, and it was done by faith. Excuse me. Salvation by faith, and then again talking about sanctification. And then second Timothy two fifteen, to go along with that, to do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

Mike: 27:36

And as Peter made abundantly clear in the first episode, and we reiterated that again in this episode that we as biblical counselors need to be handling the word of truth appropriately. You can have great theology, but it's all about how you apply that theology in the moment.

Peter: 27:53

Yeah. And let me just encourage all the listeners. This is not an easy task

Mike: 27:56

No. It's not.

Peter: 27:56

That that god has called and it's an impossible task. And we can only do it through him, and he's the one who changes hearts. And I'm using my knives to apply the gospel. I keep cutting myself. Yeah.

Peter: 28:05

And there's people who that I aspire to be like because they've been doing this longer, and they are more skilled than I am. So I just encourage everybody to keep at it. Right? Don't lose heart and go to God. James says, ask for wisdom, you know, and you'll get it.

Mike: 28:20

Yeah. Yeah. James one five, ask for wisdom because as we alluded to when we're suffering, we're not really applying a whole lot of wisdom. We're asking a lot more questions, and we tend to be operating more in the flesh when we're suffering Yep. Which is why we need the wisdom of Christ in those moments so that we can respond well to it.

Mike: 28:35

Thank you, guys. And, when it comes to the gospel for counseling, the gospel cannot be overstated. It can be oversimplified, but we need to move beyond that. We need to get to the place where and there's several books on there. And actually on our website, speakthetruth.org, there will be some updates to some of the books as it relates to the gospel and just books that do a really good job of kinda going into further depth on just the benefits in reality of the gospel truth.

Mike: 29:03

Thank you, guys. We'll see you next time.