Mike: 00:00

Hello. Hello. Hello, speakers of truth. I wanted to take a moment to let you know that there is still time to register for our annual ABC Called to Council Conference happening May in Fort Worth, Texas at Doxology Bible Church. In this year's encouraging conference theme, If God is for Us from Romans chapter eight with our pre conference theme Counseling Through God's Attributes.

Mike: 00:22

In this year's plenary teachers are Paul Tripp, Jeremy Pierre, Jeremy Lelik, and John Henderson. And we're really excited about this year's track options as well. We've got mental health, which will be biblically unpacking diagnoses like OCD, schizophrenia, gender identity, and many more. Our other track will be trauma through eight sessions. The track teachers will equip counselors with a basic level for perceiving, thinking, and responding to the experience of trauma.

Mike: 00:49

You can check out more information at the website. Other tracks like Counseling Children and Teens, Fundamentals of Biblical Counseling, Common Sexual Issues, and for our pastors and church leaders, have a track just for you, which will be pastors and church leadership, helping equip you in three different levels, the personal level, the ministry level, and then effective leadership. And our other tracks include understanding emotions like shame, guilt, and regret, and our eighth track, spiritual abuse. You can register now at www.calledtocounsel.com/ register. If you can't make it in person, no worries.

Mike: 01:29

We will be live streaming the conference, all the plenary sessions, and worship. And this year's live streaming track will be understanding emotions, guilt, shame, and regret. Welcome to speak the truth, a podcast devoted to giving biblical truth for educating, equipping, and encouraging the individual and local church in counseling and discipleship. Hello. Hello.

Mike: 02:00

Hello. I am back in studio, except the studio, as I've said last episode, has moved. We are back in Salem, Oregon. We are at Salem Heights Church at the Made to Minister Conference twenty twenty five, our ultimate treasure, the transformative power of knowing Christ. And I am with a guest who has been with us since 2019.

Mike: 02:20

Actually, the first time I met our guest, I've got Pete Potluff with us. Pete, how are doing, brother?

Pete: 02:25

So good. So good. I'm so excited to be back, man. It's I feel like I'm a regular contributor now.

Mike: 02:30

You are yearly. Yeah. Are. You are. You are.

Mike: 02:33

Definitely. Annually, and every episode that you contribute to is always really helpful. And I think at least for pastors, church leaders, and then just volunteers. And so, actually, what I'm gonna be talking with Pete about is basically pulling from his track, his breakout session for the conference. But for those of you who have not been to the Made to Minister Conference, there's actually another opportunity.

Mike: 02:57

You have not missed the train, that the train will be back in November. Correct?

Pete: 03:02

Yeah. We're moving it from February where we've been recently to November, and we're excited to have John Henderson and Curtis Solomon

Mike: 03:10

Who?

Pete: 03:11

For that. And we're gonna be focusing on trauma, and that's what our general sessions are gonna be about. But, man, we're just so thankful for the opportunity to minister to other churches. Our heartbeat is to really equip people to go back into their local and serve the Lord. So cannot wait for that.

Pete: 03:27

We're excited. Obviously, a big change for us to switch it with another conference we had at our church, but made sense in a calendar way, and we're really thankful for those two men to be willing to come out. We'll have a lot of other great workshop speakers, but really excited about this weekend as well. This topic, ultimate treasure, has been one near and dear to me. And then my breakout on hope.

Pete: 03:47

Man, this is coming out of my heart personal journey, and I'm excited to share what God has been teaching me and hope it's an encouragement to our people.

Mike: 03:55

Yeah. That's great. And I just to go back to the the title for this year's conference I love because I think this truly is really the heart of Christianity, where Christ becomes our treasure. And oftentimes in in our lives, we tend to still functionally focus on the things of this world being our treasure because of how we suffer with it or whether we don't have it or there's just that it always seems like there's just that jockeying for some sort of hope in that or fulfillment or no. I wouldn't say maybe to some extent identity, but so I I love the reality of just coming back to the transformative power of knowing Christ.

Mike: 04:31

That's really the living hope that you're talking about. Right?

Pete: 04:34

Yeah. I mean, they definitely are connected for sure. I think when we think about what it means to have hope, a lot of people are looking for hope. There's a lot of hopeless people, and the Bible claims that we can have hope in Christ. But I think it's like a lot of things we can say in the counseling room or from the pulpit on Sundays where we speak a word and we think people understand what we're talking about, but I think it's the duty of a counselor and a pastor to take time to actually explain what does the bible mean.

Pete: 05:01

And so that's really the point of my breakout is just to try to help people understand what is biblical hope, understanding it, and how do we differentiate that for people in our care so they understand that when we say hope, we're not talking about worldly hope, man centered. Hope in creation, what does it mean to have a living hope that is rooted and founded in a living gospel?

Mike: 05:20

That's good. So in in the description of the breakout session

Pete: 05:23

Yeah.

Mike: 05:23

We've got discovering practical ways to help others experience and live out this hope and experience it in their daily lives. And you largely pulled from first Peter one?

Pete: 05:31

Yeah. Yeah. Where it talks about having a living hope. It says in verse three, blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Because of his great mercy, he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

Pete: 05:45

And then he continues to go on and unpacking what that living hope means for us and how we should respond in light of that. And when I think about a living hope, I think everything that has been created by God that is living, it requires nutrition in order to stay alive. And so at the end of chapter one, he talks about the living word of God and how the glory of man and what man can produce withers and fades away like the grass of the field, but the word of God doesn't. And so oftentimes we put our hope in ourselves or in the things we can produce. And I think he's saying that stuff is not gonna actually build living hope.

Pete: 06:25

That's temporary hope. But a hope that's rooted in Christ and then fed by the living word of God, it lasts. And I think a lot of times as Christians, we're like, have a trust in the gospel, we believe in Christ, and yet we don't feel hopeful. We don't we're riddled with fear, anxieties, discouragement because we live in a broken world. And I always man, this has become one of my repeated quotes.

Pete: 06:49

It's in Called to Counsel by Bob Kellerman. He says, we live in a fallen world, and it often falls on us.

Mike: 06:55

So good.

Pete: 06:55

And I think we can all relate to that. And so there is, I think, sometimes a myth that if I follow Jesus, that stuff's gonna become easier or less frequent. But the reality is that Christ is saying, no. Now as you continue to live in this broken world until I come back and redeem it and bring you with me, you no longer have to walk through that alone. So a living hope then is not focused on, okay, Lord, help me now to experience this creation that you've created to the fullest apart from you.

Pete: 07:22

He's saying, no. We're gonna do everything together. In doing so, you're gonna be constantly confident and settled in your soul that I'm with you and that it's so good. Yeah. I'm using my hands a lot because I'm a pastor that so it's like, they talk about pastors pads.

Pete: 07:35

I mean, it's yeah. They talk about pastors. If they don't and if it doesn't work out and preach it, they can go work at an airport directing flight traffic because we use our hands a lot. But

Mike: 07:43

That's good. Yeah. That's funny. No. That's good, brother.

Mike: 07:45

And I appreciate that. And I think because in context, when you're going to first Peter, right, it's the whole heart of first Peter's largely focusing on suffering, trials and struggles. So that's really good. And a a living hope to that point is it's the resurrection of Jesus Christ. It's like he's living.

Mike: 07:59

We're not putting our hope in something that's dead, something that's hopeful, but blind. It's alive, and it's well, and it's sitting at the right hand of the father. And what I love about that too is the hope is is when also when Paul talks about faith, hope, and love, but the greatest of these is love. Like, hope when we're in heaven is not needed. So it's a legitimate gift that we don't use that's at our disposal.

Mike: 08:24

We don't use it. And we look at second Peter one, like everything's already been given to life, pertain to life and godliness. And I would say one of those things that he's given is that living hope. And that's also what he's talking about. When people are asking you, like, when you have to give a defense for the hope that's within you, because people are gonna see that.

Mike: 08:41

Absolutely. How do they measure that? It's just, man, bro, if I was going through this here a little bit, we'll be in another podcast talking about some other ministries that are happening here at Salem Heights, but like somebody struggling with cancer, where they get a terrible response of like how their body's responding to something that's going on. And the Lord all of a sudden gives them a ministry as they're getting cared for, like being able to see their response to that level of suffering. And they're not putting hope in a treatment.

Mike: 09:12

Granted, we all want to be well. So there's some level of hope there, but that's not where the living hope is.

Pete: 09:17

Right. That's that's the difference. And that's what I'm hoping to highlight for folks is that because Christ is living and the resurrection is real, our hope is not like man made hope because man made hope has to be finite. It's wishful because we cannot guarantee with certainty the things we're placing our hope in. But because Christ for sure, certainly rose from the dead and is alive, everything that he has promised to us, which is everything we need for life and godliness, is not like I I hope this comes to pass with an uncertainty or wishfulness.

Pete: 09:49

It is an a constant expectation, like I'm looking forward to it. That's a subtleness to my soul that I don't know how, but I know God will. And now when I live like that it stands broken world because it's like people look at you and go, how can you possibly be at peace? How could you not be grieving? Or how can you be responding?

Pete: 10:08

Or how could you continue to be genuine and generous when someone has wronged you? It's because our hope is built in Christ and he is producing that in me. And so hope biblical hope, I believe, is a intentional, deliberate trust in all that the gospel has provided. So I have to choose to be hopeful. I have to choose to believe in what Christ is saying he's given me.

Pete: 10:29

That is my responsibility. And if I do that, if I stay in that abiding posture, he's gonna continue to meet me and my needs.

Mike: 10:35

Yeah. It's really good because going on, as you were quoting, as we've been largely talking about verse three there in first Peter one, going into verses four, five, and six, and just really because we talk about, okay, that sounds great. Hope, Jesus, and resurrection. Okay. But that still sounds ethereal and out here that, like, that's nothing concrete.

Mike: 10:54

Peter gives us concrete examples like imperishable, undefiled, and unfading. That's paradoxical because to your point, in man's hope, it's it's always based on creation. It can only be based on creation. And he's presenting something out here, which that's the paradoxical nature of it. Yeah, my body's literally crumbling and getting old, and it's gonna it's gonna become extremely limited.

Mike: 11:14

But I'm not putting my faith in something that's fading and it's old. I'm like, I'm gonna have a future that's unfading and imperishable. That is huge. And then the faith for a salvation ready to be revealed at the last time. We have something to look forward to that far exceeds the present struggle, which is largely first Peter.

Mike: 11:33

Right? So it's

Pete: 11:33

And when scripture instructs us to direct our attention towards the Lord, that's when the hope fills us up. Again, by being in the word of God, I'm feeding that hope. See, I think hope can be diminished when we get distracted on worldly things. And I know that sounds cliche, but it's so true. The old hymn says, turn your eyes upon Jesus, and the things of earth will grow strangely dim in the light of his glory and grace.

Pete: 11:58

And so that's the thing that I would wanna come alongside someone who is struggling, is discouraged, is hopeless, not feeling that they can trust the Lord, that he's got things going on, is to point them to what do we know is true. And as we begin to turn our eyes upon him and we look at the scriptures, I believe he begins that hope begins to well up inside of us. We don't actually have we have to choose to trust him, but he takes care of the rest. And that's what I wanna offer people. And, yeah, it can be ethereal, but that's my greatest desire as a pastor and biblical counselor is to try to take these Christian terms that people hear and try to understand what does that actually mean for today.

Pete: 12:37

And love what it says here. He talks about how in verse eight, though you have not seen him, you love him. And though not seeing him, now you believe in him. And you rejoice with inexpressible and glorious joy because you're receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls. He's how can you be receiving it now if you haven't died yet?

Pete: 12:53

It's because salvation isn't something just reserved when you get to heaven right now. You get to experience the intimacy with the Lord, and that intimacy is what fills you with hope. And so he's just trying to point him to, again, these exiles, these people that feel out of place. They're not there. They've been forced to flee through religious persecution.

Pete: 13:09

They've been forced to maybe seek out greater provision in that time and era in in in world history, And yet they're outsiders, but they have a faith in Christ, and they're going, okay. What does that faith equal to equate to in my life? Or Peter here is trying to explain to them. It means this, and this is what you need to focus on. And that's really what I'm hoping to to share because this has been probably for me the biggest thing is to understand that right now I can have a hope because what Christ is promising me is not just something in the future.

Pete: 13:38

It's something that right now he can fill me with, and it it's largely tied to spending time in his word. I'll tell you this. There's one commentary I was reading on first Peter where they were talking about Martin Lloyd Jones, and they were talking about

Mike: 13:50

Logic on fire.

Pete: 13:51

Yes. And he has a story. When he was a boy, he was sent away to boarding school, and he was so homesick. And he had gone home for a vacation, and he was sitting in church on a Sunday knowing and then he was, like, realizing that, like, in twenty four hours, he was gonna be back at school. And he just started to feel that sense of homesickness.

Pete: 14:07

And I when I was growing up as a kid, I remember being homesick. Like, I would be invited to spend the night at someone's house, and I was like, I gotta get home. I can't stay here. Something's not right. I when I've traveled internationally, there's always a moment like, I miss home.

Pete: 14:20

Like, it's weird. And when I when I read that illustration, it actually connected something to me spiritually. I think all of us who have faith in Christ, who are God's children, who are exiles right now because this is not our home, we have a spiritual homesickness. We know we're not where we're supposed to be, and we're longing for something we don't know how to attain. And the I think what Peter's trying to say is don't try to fill that longing, that spiritual homesickness with things of this world.

Pete: 14:45

Let Christ satisfy that here and into eternity. And when I understood that it's okay I understand now what what that feeling is. I'm spiritually homesick because I'm not with my savior, like, face to face yet, but he's with me now, he's saying, oh, I'm right here. And what comfort does that give me? It gives me great hope.

Mike: 15:03

Yeah. That's really good. That's really good. So in in that breakout session and, again, I would encourage you guys to look for those details. I know on Facebook, you can find Salem Heights and the made to minister stuff as well on their page, and I'm sure they'll we'll have more information on the November 2025 Made to Minister Conference.

Pete: 15:24

Yeah.

Mike: 15:25

Do we have a do we have a theme on that one yet?

Pete: 15:27

Yeah. It's gonna be trauma. We're gonna ask those guys to walk us through how we use the Psalms to help people who are, who've experienced trauma, who are in the midst of trauma. And the tagline is loosely, I don't have it in front of me, but it's finding God's restorative path out of darkness. And so this idea of how do we let the Psalms lead us through those valleys.

Pete: 15:48

And both John and Curtis do a great job just working through these things. I've got to hear them speak on this at the national conference. And so we're excited to have them out here because they're both very skilled at just taking the word of God and applying it. And that's really what we're trying to develop as biblical counselors.

Mike: 16:05

Yeah. And it's funny to your point, just to tie what you're doing into that. And then in November, the reality of the Psalms really are probably some of the most hope filled words that sort of bring the human experience, the struggle of the soul in that human experience to the face of God. Yeah. And learning to struggle.

Mike: 16:26

So I think that's awesome. And that's really again, that's another example of hope, trying to articulate what does hope really look like? What does it feel like? What does it taste like?

Pete: 16:35

That's the simple I'm a pretty simple guy. I'm a to me, I'm a simple pastor. I'm a simple preacher. So really, all I'm trying to encourage the people in this breakout is to understand how to articulate to somebody why biblical hope is better than wishful hope. Because I think there is a form of counsel or care where we're trying to help a person who's suffering and we're just trying to say positive things and try to get them to diminish the reality of their suffering and it doesn't last.

Pete: 17:03

It's actually not gonna meet their need. It's gonna maybe make them feel something that then they're let down even more. But in Christ, hope is not wishful. It's confident because it's founded in the resurrection. And if we can just be able to start there, that is the foundation of, I think, biblical counseling from that point forward.

Mike: 17:22

No, it's really good because at least I hear this probably the most most regularly is when people are like, oh, I hope that works out. There's like this low functioning hope that we all talk. I hope this works out or I hope that works out. Because we really what we're exposing is our finitude, like what you're talking about. We actually have when we say living hope, infinite, holy, providential, has said love in God that is ours.

Mike: 17:50

When we're around loss, considering first Peter and suffering, it's like with loss, it's just we try to be hopeful and kind when we really don't know what to say to people because we really know in those moments we unless we can offer Christ's hope, we really truly have no offering of hope to these people when they're struggling.

Pete: 18:08

We can't guarantee anything. We can't guarantee what we're saying will produce anything unless we're pointing them to Christ. He is the guarantee. Yeah. And we're gonna be talking about that actually.

Pete: 18:18

That's the overarching principle to the overall conference theme of ultimate treasure was I was sitting in an intensive with a biblical counselor watching him minister to these two broken people. And so he hears their story and they're there because they don't know if their marriage is gonna make it. And he knows there's gonna be a mountain in front of them that's gonna take hard work and a lot of like self heart work before they can deal with the the frustrations of their spouse. And the counselor said, are you willing to do the hard work if the reward and the prize is Jesus? Because ultimately, he is the reward.

Pete: 18:56

And I sat

Mike: 18:57

there That's challenging. That's so challenging.

Pete: 18:59

Is, but I sat there and go, that is all we can offer them is Jesus. And so that is what we're gonna be trying to encourage people at the conference this year is to say, if you're gonna any kind of discipleship ministry, pastoral, ministry leaders, small groups, community groups, if you're a biblical counselor, you help with addictions, do not for a second lean on your own understanding and try to offer them your wisdom and experience. Although valuable, the ultimate treasure is not how to live in this world with God's stuff apart from God. It's to live in knowledge of him. And if we start there, we're not giving them something that will disappoint.

Pete: 19:36

I just I can't guarantee anything else. I can guarantee Christ though because I believe in the resurrection.

Mike: 19:41

No. That's really good. In closing up, Pete, any final encouragement just for some of our listeners who may be pastors, elders, and or just church staff or lay leaders in their ministry?

Pete: 19:52

Yeah. First off, thanks for having me back, and I'm thankful for all you that you do with your ministry. And for pastors, I think I've told my story before on your podcast, but this has been transformative of me being more effective and skillful in applying God's word to the hurts in my congregation. I think encouraging people to get training in biblical counseling is not to try to become an expert in having all the answers. It's to know how to actually point them to the truth of scripture and encourage people to take advantage of the resources out there.

Pete: 20:21

I'm so excited for what these different partners of ours are producing and allow the church to be the church. It says in scripture that we are to care for the household of faith first, but it says we're supposed to have a care for everyone. And I think the Bible has what the world needs.

Mike: 20:36

Yeah. That's awesome. To that end, I do know to Pete's encouragement there at the end, knowing the work that the Lord's doing out here in Salem and with all of this stuff and knowing that to that very last point that Pete was making is that the outsiders in the community now look to the church because they know the church actually cares at a level that they can feel and experience that does provide that living hope that you're talking about. So that's awesome, guys. Thank you for listening.

Mike: 21:06

Thank you, Pee, for joining us again. And if you guys have any topics that you'd like us to discuss, email us at topicsspeakthetruth dot org. We look forward to next time. See you.