Richard: 00:06

Welcome to Speak

Michael: 00:07

the Truth, a podcast devoted to giving biblical truth for educating, equipping, and encouraging the individual and local church in counseling and discipleship. Hello. Hello. Hello. We are back at the ABC Calder Council Conference 2024.

Michael: 00:24

We are continuing with bringing in some special guests. And we've got some special guests. We've got the founders of Encounter Ministries, Richard and Shelley Winchlog. How are y'all doing? Good.

Michael: 00:33

So is it Pacific Northwest or is it I heard you say Midwest before. Is it

Shelli: 00:37

We're from the Midwest originally, but I would say Nevada is is just west. Yeah.

Richard: 00:42

I don't think we have a pronounced name for Nevada. It's just Y'all

Michael: 00:45

are autonomous, We kinda like, we're we're our own thing.

Richard: 00:48

We're known as Lake Tahoe. Yeah. Yeah. Not even not even Reno.

Michael: 00:51

So it's y'all's first ABC conference.

Richard: 00:53

Yes.

Michael: 00:54

It is indeed. So it's actually pretty interesting how we came in contact, and it happened very quickly. It was a phone call and another call, and then we're talking about doing a class. And so they have a class that they're gonna be launching. But before we get into all of that, we wanna share with you guys just their ministry.

Michael: 01:12

And, Richard and Shelly, would you guys just share a little bit about Encounter Ministries, how Encounter Ministries came into being? Just a little testimonial on kinda what God was doing in your own lives that put on your heart to actually have this ministry for others. I guess, Shelley, ladies first. Do you wanna

Richard: 01:29

Yeah.

Shelli: 01:29

Ladies first. I'm not I don't get to be first in this ministry very often because it started with the men. Early on, Richard and I had had just moved to Reno. We'd been living there for maybe a couple years, and he attended an an event that was called Encounter. And at the time, I had no idea what it was about, but it was good timing for us because we were going through a season of crisis.

Shelli: 01:50

Mhmm. But he had attended it was the first one out of the gate that our church did. And then shortly after that, I was asked to be part of the team that went to Southern California to learn a bit about what encounters were. They actually started with the Catholic church many years ago. I grew up Catholic, and I had attended something like this.

Shelli: 02:11

But it's evolved and it's changed since then, and it's evolved and changed even more since Richard and I took it outside the church and decided we need to bring this to the entire area. We thought that it being isolated to just the church wasn't really touching enough people. And with that, he and some of the men came up with the idea of let's take it outside, and they started their own 501c3. And and so once they got it going, I started something on the female side of it. And, originally, our church was supportive of that, but we ended up switching churches midway.

Richard: 02:45

Yes. The reason this had such a profound effect when I went to the first one is I've been doing men's studies, men's band of brothers. I did it for 3 years, 36 weeks a year. At the end of the 3 years, there was still no relationship.

Michael: 02:59

Mhmm.

Richard: 02:59

There was nothing

Michael: 03:00

Yeah.

Richard: 03:01

There. Yes. We'd learned some great tools. We would learn how the interaction should go with the scriptures. We learned all of that, but we didn't learn relationship.

Richard: 03:10

And when I went to my first encounter, I I come to recognize I'd done all this studying for 10 years in scripture and bible studies and with men, but I had no relationship. And and I went to this first encounter and relationship came out of it with men that you'd spent 48 hours with. I I'd spent 3 years with men that I didn't have relationship like this. Just in 48 hours it changed every every direction in which I understood there could be relationship with men. And once I had that, I was like, this needs to be This

Michael: 03:43

needs to be replicated. This needs to be

Richard: 03:45

pronounced Yeah. And and brought to more people, especially men.

Michael: 03:48

Yeah. Because

Richard: 03:49

we're kind of self driven for the most part. We isolate Yeah. Especially in crisis. Yeah. We don't bring others around us.

Richard: 03:57

And so Yeah. That's what I found to be very dynamic. And so when we brought it out in 2015, actually, we set our 501c3 up in 2014, and we started to promote. That's awesome. Yeah.

Michael: 04:09

We started Truth Nerd in 2014. That's a good year. But what I like about what you said, Richard, is is this and and, Shelley, I think to your point, it also a to your point where men have just this insatiable propensity, if I can say it that way, to isolate and I got this. It's it's the reality of our pride. It's the extent of our pride, the the nth degree of our pride where men just naturally isolate more and just, I'll figure it out and kinda do my own thing.

Michael: 04:36

But the consequence of that, kinda like you said, where you can have men's ministry for 3 years and put on these events and try to have some sort of thing that's sort of trying to foster and cultivate relationship. And, like, to your point, really, what it does is men typically stay superficial. They might get transparent, but it's very difficult for them to become vulnerable.

Richard: 04:57

Yes.

Michael: 04:57

And for what you're saying to create an environment where you come with testimony. We'll talk a little bit more about encounter. What are people actually encountering, in that so that they get to that place in the relationship where they realize, no. It's actually good that I'm vulnerable. Yes.

Michael: 05:14

And then you realize that you're in relationship with men, and it creates the band of brothers in in in the Christian Koinonia sense. And so

Richard: 05:23

Yeah. Absolutely. And what we have learned is that the more vulnerable we are, the more truth we tell of our story, the more vulnerable men and women are willing to be. So when we have no secrets, it allows others to to start to open up to their own. And then they find this freedom that they never knew existed.

Richard: 05:43

And and and it's freedom in Christ, the trust of Christ. So it's not that I can start to trust man or or the other person standing in front of me. It's that I can trust Christ with my story. And and I don't have to worry about whether you take it and go tell somebody else. So when I tell my story of of being a cheater and and cheating on my wife and an adulterer, and I'm not afraid of who's gonna go tell or share that story

Michael: 06:09

Right.

Richard: 06:10

Because I I'm a son of of the father, and I don't have to worry about it. And her and I have been so honest about it. They don't have to worry about a gossip thing coming back to her. In in this reality, we get to live free, which is what he calls us to live. Is in this freedom, which most of us never experience because we're busy holding on to the secrets that we're afraid everybody will talk talk about.

Richard: 06:33

They're afraid of the gossip. They're afraid of what will they think of me. And in actuality, people actually love hearing that genuine story, and they fall in love with you. And they want to have some of that freedom alongside you. And that's what this weekend brings.

Richard: 06:48

That's what Encounter Ministry is all about. And and so the joy that we get to have and share with people even though we've been in the deepest, darkest, most broken spots right with other people. I mean, I've been that depressed person that can't move. I've I've been what you'd call I heard voices. I mean, I've been there.

Richard: 07:08

So when I talk to people, I can actually share with them what they're experiencing. They're just like, oh, I'm not alone. I'm not alone in this. And there is hope and freedom does exist.

Michael: 07:19

Yeah. That's really good. And and what I appreciate on that. And then I wanna come back to you, Shelly, and just kinda hear how that how that is for the women. But what what I like about the reality of that is also acknowledging their the irony of pride.

Michael: 07:31

Okay. As it relates to men to that point is they they desire those things, but they don't realize because you refuse to be vulnerable, you're forfeiting the freedom that actually awaits you on the other side.

Richard: 07:43

Absolutely true.

Michael: 07:44

You know what I mean? And so and so part of the encounter from what I'm understanding of what you're saying is it's just it's helping them realize it. Now, they don't fully realize what's gonna happen until they're in the moment, and then they see the reality of the spirit and people being honest and transparent about the reality of the gospel. And, really, what it does is it also helps them forfeit their fear of man and actually reorient reorienting them and their focus on god.

Richard: 08:07

On Jesus. Yeah.

Michael: 08:08

So it's that reorientation of moving their focus horizontally to vertical. And, again, that's where the the issue of isolation comes in. So there's a lot of things happening within that encounter, but trying to meet men where they are and and giving them the environment where they can stand before others. No judgment, condemnation, but just showing them what it means to, as you alluded to earlier, being a child of light and actually bringing things to light that there's grace that awaits you in the light and bringing that so that you're confronting the lie and bringing yourself to the light and just the joy of that obedience. And then the fruit of it is the vulnerability and realizing that when I see a guy, I don't it does I don't care what he says or if it's something whatever happened because my joy is in the lord, not the fear of man.

Michael: 08:55

As Proverbs says that to fear, fear of man is a snare, and and that's the reality of that. So the fact that you are helping simultaneously confront that reality in men and showing them that the very thing that you want and you're most fearful to do is actually what's going to bring you freedom.

Richard: 09:11

Yeah. And and it's it is the hardest thing for men to recognize or come to the truth of is is allowing yourself to come to that truth first because of that feeling of being judged or or not understood or can't explain it well or however the fear enters.

Michael: 09:28

Yeah.

Richard: 09:29

And and missing the recognition of the fear of the Lord in all of this. Yeah. You know? I mean, I've walked with 20 year long Christians that come to an encounter, and at the end of it, they go, thank you. Thank you, Jesus, for a while.

Michael: 09:40

This 20 years ago? Yeah. Exactly. And that's

Richard: 09:43

what that's exact comments we get is, like, I've been doing this for 20 years, and I missed out on this opportunity. And it's like we tell people, if if you'll just get on the bus, because that is part of the process is you get on and you surrender over your own will Mhmm. For 48 hours.

Michael: 09:58

Nice. And you

Richard: 09:59

put it in in the faith of the Lord and and the men and women that are gonna put this on for you.

Michael: 10:04

That's really good. So, Shelly, how would you share it? Like, how would the women experience of that? It just I know, again, the vulnerability is a little different because women just sort of naturally share or vomit or maybe not. You're looking at me like, oh, maybe you stand corrected.

Michael: 10:19

Maybe I so I stand corrected. So what what do you experience?

Shelli: 10:22

First of all, I wanna say you're right. Because for the men, I think it is more hard to be vulnerable and to step up and open up to one another. And there is a perception that women have an easy time with that, but there are some downfalls with that. It's easy for women if they're 1 on 1 to talk about things like that. But to open up publicly, we do worry about being gossiped about because women have a reputation for gossiping.

Shelli: 10:45

Men not

Michael: 10:46

Yeah. I think scripture calls them busybodies. Yes. Busy bodies. Women are definitely busybodies.

Michael: 10:48

Yes. Busybodies. Women are

Richard: 10:49

definitely busybodies.

Michael: 10:50

There's 2nd Timothy. Yeah.

Shelli: 10:52

1 of 1 of the I I love this. 1 of the women from Texas that I trained from one of the churches here, she came and spoke at one of our events. She served and then she came or she attended and then she came and served, but she said difficult because when you're in party

Michael: 11:05

people church

Shelli: 11:05

is what she got out of.

Richard: 11:06

Yeah. She said

Michael: 11:07

you have to come in

Shelli: 11:07

with a mask on and you have to put on this perception

Michael: 11:09

even as

Shelli: 11:14

women that you've got everything pulled together. So it makes it really difficult to be vulnerable. These weekends that we have, we don't give a whole lot of description about it because it's difficult to describe. And if you tell someone you're gonna go there and be vulnerable, even with women, they would say, no. I'm not.

Shelli: 11:32

Because you're doing it in an atmosphere that seems public. And I think the men doing this and and moving forward when they're the ones that lead the family, same thing

Michael: 11:43

Yeah.

Shelli: 11:43

With this ministry. What's had impact on the women is is that the men come back from those weekends and they come back changed, and their wives notice it, their daughters notice it, their mothers notice it, and they always ask, what happened to you? Mhmm.

Richard: 11:57

And so this vertical understanding, coming to understand that we must keep our eyes on Christ, and we must get them focused on, is hard to explain to somebody before they actually do it. So if we try to explain to somebody this is what's gonna happen on our weekend, they'll go, I've already been there, done that. If I can convince them, I'm like, okay. Here's what I want you to do. Come and then share with me afterwards what we can do differently that won't make it just like everybody else's.

Richard: 12:25

I have yet to have somebody on Sunday afternoon come up to me and say, oh, that's like anything else I've been a part of. And they're like, there's nothing like this. I have never experienced this. I've never experienced the closeness of Christ like this. If I have, I can't remember or recall that might have been a bible camping moment.

Richard: 12:46

We all have our bible camp moments or those who went, but this is there's something that happens with you and Christ on that weekend because you're in a room of 60, 70, 80 people, but it's just you and him. That's the difference. We're not there counseling. We're not there preaching. These are just ordinary men and women telling their story of how Jesus changed their life and how when they put all their hope and and all of what they have into into him, they found freedom.

Richard: 13:18

It doesn't mean it comes without pain. Yeah. Which is what we'll get on to in the next topic, but it comes knowing that freedom exists and that there's hope in what they're going through.

Michael: 13:29

Like true legitimate capital h hope.

Richard: 13:32

Capital h hope And they leave there knowing there's more. There is there's no need to take their life. There's no need to to get divorced. I can't even tell you the numbers of people that that have come and their marriages have have revived and and gone on to prosper, And and now they're part of this ministry bringing that hope to others. And the men and women that have been been so hurt by others or their situations and they come and they find out Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life.

Richard: 14:03

And when they come to this understanding, it is so we're 2 of the most blessed people, like, on the face of the earth because we get to see it actually happen before our eyes. It's amazing.

Michael: 14:14

No. It is. And I think that's the that's the joy when the lord is gracious enough to allow us to see the fruit of the ministry that he's given us. Yeah. To because we're so convinced of the life change, the transformative work that takes place.

Michael: 14:27

And it's when when we just talk about it, but then when people actually experience it. And then then that's that's the other part, which obviously, henceforth, Encounter. Yeah. Exactly. Encounter Ministries.

Michael: 14:37

Yes. Yeah. So yeah. Moving on to to the next segment here and just and, obviously, you guys have had this ministry. You've obviously tried to work within the local Christians that have had an encounter.

Michael: 14:57

Ultimately, they realize the freedom that they have in Christ, and now they wanna grow in that freedom. That brings us to the second point of now counseling, trying to work with the local church, becoming a training center for ABC. But how in your context in Reno, how have you seen, like, working with the local church where counseling plays a part into that and just the relationship with the local church as you guys are trying to operate as a nonprofit serving the local church and trying to get the people that come to you, help them be assimilated or sort of moving to the local church to make sure that they're growing in Christ.

Richard: 15:31

We've been doing this for 10 years now, and the number one challenge we've always had is the post encounter experience. So these men and women, they come back, and they're on fire. They want more of Jesus. So, yes, we direct them to scripture. We're all called to and commissioned to do is is create disciples.

Richard: 15:50

And the missing piece to this weekend was the post experience. And so we were hoping or our hope would be that the church would take that piece on. And so we would do our weekends. We would we and then they would go back to their churches because we're a multidenominational Yeah. You know, organization.

Richard: 16:07

There we have Catholics. It it doesn't matter your denomination. They come to this weekend, and then our expectation was that the church would would then take them on. But we come to find out that that isn't really the case.

Michael: 16:18

Or that they don't have very many have the tools. Yeah. They don't have pathways to kinda help them grow. And not just to to your point, to your earlier point. And I and I think this kinda caveats and ties into discipleship where you've got the instructional reality of the word, but then there's the relational application of that instruction of the word.

Michael: 16:36

And so it's part and parcel, and I think that's the the bifurcation of discipleship, meaning some churches are really good at the instruction relational application to help people relationally apply what they're learning in the word, the one anothers of scripture as it were. And then secondly, the other part is they're really good about fellowship, but they're not growing in the word. So it's a little truncated in in in that sense. Shelley, do you have some thoughts on that?

Shelli: 17:05

I do have some thoughts on that. As Richard was saying, initially, we thought that the church should would take this on. Women are really good about pulling things together and having bible studies, and we encouraged, hey, get involved in your church. So it wasn't so much that they we wanted them to have a program, you know, once people came down from we always say down from the mountain because it's up at Lake Tahoe.

Michael: 17:24

Yeah.

Shelli: 17:25

But once they'd come back, we would just want them and expect them and encourage them to get involved in their churches. But the relational part of this is what was missing. Because even within the church, I know that the church wants to do a good job of connecting people and having the relationships. I think what has hindered that is just this idea that I can't be I can't really let people know who I am or they won't like me. And so many of the attendees and and the servers that we have that have gone back to their churches, they get involved, but they feel like there's not the same level of depth there.

Shelli: 18:01

Yeah. And and they want that. And Yeah. And it's and it's not it's it's difficult. It's just difficult in the church.

Shelli: 18:08

And especially as as a church grows, it can be it can be harder and harder to get people connected. The smaller churches, I don't think they struggle quite as much with that. But we we come from an area where they're of every size. But our our goal is is to make sure that once they leave that weekend, that there's something there for them. Because some of them come fairly healthy and and maybe a mature believer who just is lit on fire again for Jesus.

Shelli: 18:33

Some of them that come have are are suffering and having a difficult time in their walk, and a lot of the people that come are not even churched, or they have church hurt. And we get them from all walks, but we've realized that there is a need to be able to minister to them afterward. And so God has just been good and gracious to begin opening up those doors for us, which is exciting.

Richard: 18:56

What's amazing about this ministry then in the intensity of that weekend, we have 30% of all the

Michael: 19:01

people that come are unchurched or haven't That's a pretty significant percentage.

Richard: 19:06

It's a significant percent, especially the depth that we go to with people that don't know how to open their bible to Matthew or to any of this. And so they're coming, and they're meeting Jesus in this in this realm and falling in love with that and then going and wanting that word to know who he is. And and so in that experience, we've been able to, and been blessed to to baptize 2 over 2,000 people in this ministry in 10 years, have over a hun or over a 1000 people come to Christ in this little ministry of 60, 70 people on a weekend several times a year. And and and it's only a testament to what god's doing in Reno, Nevada and and the movement that he's and he's having there. And so what which brings us to this counseling piece.

Richard: 19:55

Right? Or this this next step piece, which is so important. Because we are a 100% believer in the church. The church is the way. It's the it's the groundwork.

Richard: 20:04

It's the it's the rock. We are here to supplement and be a part of what that looks like to help bring those along and so offer all those opportunities for people to go deeper or to look for another piece, but that they they then bring it into their church.

Michael: 20:19

Yeah.

Richard: 20:19

And they're the strength of their church with their pastors, supporting their pastors, supporting their elders, and and making those steps, of faith along with them as they educate themselves. And and then bringing the counseling piece, which we believe is the missing dynamic that we haven't had for for this 10 years, which can then bring people along through this biblical counseling piece of helping them through their trauma. Because Yeah. One of the things we learn yeah. Yes.

Richard: 20:45

You can get high on Christ, but after about 6 or 8 weeks, life and reality set back in. Mhmm. And there and the work really has to begin on on that traumatic experience as a child or or those things that you've been carrying that you were able to let go of for 6 or 8 weeks, but there they are again. All of a sudden, they're back in my life, and why why is this great god allowing this back in my life? Because he wants you healed.

Richard: 21:08

Yeah. He he wants you healed from those things. And and sometimes it takes a whole lot of directive work Yeah. To to remove those.

Michael: 21:16

There's a lot of pain in the healing process.

Richard: 21:18

Yeah. Yeah.

Shelli: 21:18

And I I gotta say something else too, which is we're on the counseling part of this is that our our heart and our passion has always been to assist the churches to do, you know, what we can, not to be in in competition with them, but to help build the church, the local churches. The counseling part of that is is even for the churches, it's difficult for them when they have someone in crisis to have some place to send these people. It's as far as the biblical counseling, that really has been non existent as we found in our area. There are Christian counselors and which is which is okay, but, you know, this is we're learning about the ABC. It's so much better and so much deeper and so much more geared toward what people's actual needs are.

Shelli: 22:02

And so as the churches are looking for people to be able to send the herding to, they they don't have enough resources for that. So we want to stack the area with plenty of resources for them.

Michael: 22:16

Yeah. That's really good. So with that, the concrete reality of that is you guys are gonna be outfitted as a training center, encouraging churches, local churches to come, be a part of it, get their people equipped. You're doing the enlisting part, meaning they recognize and understand their freedom in Christ by bringing everything to the light and walking in that in that freedom, being enlisted in that way. And then now you guys are moving in into an equipping thing of equipping helping the local church where if they're not outfitted to have it at the local church, they can come to you.

Michael: 22:49

And then you guys are gonna have those classes so that they can be equipped and then so that they can go back into their context and be empowered in their local church context so that that can continue to be multiplied. When I say multiplied, meaning that same care level Yes. Is happening. Yep.

Richard: 23:02

Yes. So The care and love. Right? Yeah. 1 Corinthians 13 is we hand out the bracelet every time

Michael: 23:07

we encounter.

Richard: 23:08

1 Corinthian I mean, without it, everything's a sounding gong and a clanging cymbal. Yeah. We are to love one another and and bring that love to one another, not just talk about it. Like, we're supposed to live it out Yeah. And be the expressive love of Christ.

Richard: 23:22

And and when we're helping people, there's nothing greater than helping another another person and and supporting them and strengthening them and encouraging them along the way because it's a tough road. It is a tough road to come out of some of these hurts. And and

Michael: 23:40

When they've been entangled for I mean, sin is real. It's it's real. And and and it's and I don't mean that in a judgmental sense, but just the the the task it takes on the soul and and the body. Yeah. Right?

Michael: 23:51

And it's it's it's heavy. So I appreciate you guys being here. It's been a joy to to get to meet you guys, and and I pray that we continue in our partnership. And it's just it's so exciting to an earlier point that we were talking about is just, like, what the lord is doing and how he's raising up people across the country with very similar visions.

Richard: 24:12

Yeah. We agree. We hear it. And Yeah. Like, we've we've brought our ministry to Michigan, Tennessee, Alabama, Texas because people are hungry, and they're looking for this.

Richard: 24:23

They want this connection with Christ. And it's not just it's it's other other ministries that are having this like minded call.

Michael: 24:30

Yeah.

Richard: 24:30

And then they're the pieces of the body are coming together and and creating 1. It's it's awesome.

Michael: 24:36

Yeah. So and and the fact that we get to, experientially speaking, enjoy that operationally as a nonprofit organization, but then as the body of Christ. Being the body for the body to the body, it's just a it's a beautiful thing. I will put this stuff in the show notes as far as Encounter Ministries. And then you had alluded to some states that you're in.

Michael: 24:56

Do you wanna just share some up and coming? So this podcast will probably be released a little bit later this summer because I've been a little behind, so I've got several I've gotta release. But what are some dates towards the end of the summer, like, August? I think we were talking the other night. We were at dinner.

Michael: 25:11

Some in August. I think I heard some in October. Or what what are some different states, times? Or or I guess I can maybe just hyperlink. I can go to the website.

Michael: 25:19

I'm sure on their website. I can just hyperlink them in the show notes for people. But

Richard: 25:22

Yeah. If you put encounter ministry dot life in there and and then the other one that we never even got a chance to talk about is our marriage encounter, which is

Michael: 25:29

Oh, yeah.

Richard: 25:30

Is now, like, gonna be Shelley and I's focus a whole lot.

Michael: 25:33

But So, like sorry. Just to unpack that for a moment. So you 2 will kinda, like, do an intensive, like, for a couple or several couples or whatever however that were shakes out.

Shelli: 25:44

Yeah. So several couples.

Michael: 25:45

We Okay.

Shelli: 25:46

Were a couple into these now, and we keep the weekends at this point pretty intimate. What does our average been?

Richard: 25:53

Nineteen couples.

Shelli: 25:54

Yeah. Nineteen couples. But the impact that the marriage encounter is having, especially if the husband and the wife, respectively, have attended an encounter, they're already spiritually and mentally prepared for for that vulnerability and the self reflection because what Jesus does is he doesn't allow you to point the finger at anyone but yourself. And so coming into a marriage encounter and already, taking on some of the responsibility of your part in the relationship has been huge. And so the feedback that we've been getting on that is is incredible.

Shelli: 26:25

And with the ministry, one of the gentlemen that works for us, he, Richard, and I, because we've been through marital problems, we gave him some, things that we We gave

Richard: 26:35

him a lot of tools.

Michael: 26:37

Yeah. Things that you've learned.

Richard: 26:38

Tools. A lot

Michael: 26:39

of yeah.

Richard: 26:39

To put in his book.

Shelli: 26:41

Yeah. What to do and what not to do that that would work because we we've tried retreats and they didn't they didn't go well and depending on the issues that people are struggling with. Yeah. And I I don't know if it was just a big secret years ago because this was probably 20 years ago now, Richard, that we had gone through some of those marriage retreats. They they were great for kinda taking care of how to make your marriage better.

Michael: 27:03

But Like maintenance type level stuff?

Shelli: 27:05

Yes.

Richard: 27:06

But take 2 people that are broken, and you can have the biggest fight you've ever had in your marriage really fast. And we did. Yeah.

Michael: 27:12

We did. Yeah. You don't take them to the suicide. You take them to the ring. Yeah.

Michael: 27:15

That's You become the ref and the mediator and you're yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Shelli: 27:17

So we tried to put a positive spin on this for sure because it talks about the book. It's called Harmony and Marriage. And there's a workbook that goes along with it.

Michael: 27:25

And you're giving me a lot to put in the show notes right now.

Richard: 27:27

Yeah. We are.

Michael: 27:28

Yeah. But, I

Richard: 27:28

mean, there's so many things that are taking place because the Lord and way he's moving this is with our marriage experiences coming to recognize that most couples don't have they don't ever really communicate. We we know that for sure. And then along with this, what we learned is that through after our weekend, then you go into the harmony and marriage 8 week class. We offer counseling along the way. So you're not just gonna go to a weekend and then say, now you're on your own.

Richard: 27:55

Good luck. And and we don't put you together. Yeah. There's post care.

Michael: 27:58

That's right. Yeah.

Richard: 27:59

Yeah. And we don't put you together on your weekend. You're not rooming together because that's one of the things we learned. Like, that's where the fight is. Is that night after you get this all this profound information that you do then go share with each other that you're in complete disagreement on, and then you argue.

Richard: 28:18

We learned that let's walk through these things together and then provide an opportunity for the couples to talk with with each other without that pressure of the bedroom or or all of those things that come into play.

Shelli: 28:34

Right? And So we're able to process it

Richard: 28:36

Yes.

Shelli: 28:36

You know, through with genders. Sometimes the men are are separate and the women are separated, and they're they process through a lot of the questions that we that we have. And then there's times where the couple's groups come together with a facilitator and work through another set of questions. And then then toward the end, they come together 1 on 1 in a room, and they've got about an hour to process through what they've been learning about themselves and about their marriage. And it's been

Richard: 29:01

And everything's done with I statements. Right?

Shelli: 29:03

Yes.

Richard: 29:03

It's kind of that that process of I learned this. I I walk into

Michael: 29:08

Acknowledgment and ownership.

Richard: 29:10

That's right. And Yeah. And so it has been profound, like, the the impact that it's having for our marriages and and what they're coming to learn about one another. Yeah. I know we just hijacked your show and added another segment.

Michael: 29:22

No. That's great. Hey. We're at we're at

Richard: 29:24

I'm pretty good at

Michael: 29:25

that. No. We're at we're we're approaching 30 3 minutes, so that's good. That's that's good show notes, and and and I hope it's an encouragement. Richard and Shelly, thank you guys.

Michael: 29:33

And to our listeners, again, I would just encourage you, in the show notes to check out Encounter Ministries. They're doing a lot in the Pacific Northwest. And Richard alluded to, they're in several different states. And so a lot of this stuff will be in the show notes. And, again, I would just encourage you guys to to check it out.

Michael: 29:48

Any sort of final thoughts on what I'd try to do a little bit more, Richard, is with for those who feel called to, like, their the lord's put something on their heart and they're kinda struggling. Obviously, with y'all story, typically, what comes out of your own struggle, the lord gives you a ministry with that to minister to others because anyway. So any any final thoughts to encourage those who would be kinda stuck in that fear mode of, yeah. But I I wanna do this, but just, kinda how you just jumped to do it and just trust in the lord. How what would be your encouragement?

Richard: 30:22

That that trusting in the lord. But it's that moment where you have to just do what you know the Holy Spirit is telling you to do. Like, when I told my wife that I had had an affair in 2000, there was something profound that happened right before that. I had never told anybody about this affair and that had taken place. She knew.

Richard: 30:41

She knew just because of behavior. She knew it was but I'd never told. And then I told somebody, and then within 30 minutes, I was telling her. So he had me. I I know the lord had me because I know he had me tell somebody that because this had taken place 10 years prior to this moment.

Richard: 30:58

And then I went home and I told her. I got down on my hands and knees, basically, crying and and told her, And then the work began. Like, the real battle and the stuff began. But, yes, we be obviously, we become closer than you could ever possibly thought in that moment that it could take place because all the difficulties that come with that Yeah. That confession.

Richard: 31:23

But from that point on, that's what he's created this ministry to be, is that we do we don't have to find and live in shame or, she can find forgiveness in her heart for this and things can heal. So, we wanna bring that story to people.

Shelli: 31:38

Yeah. I mean, I just have to agree with that. We've been blessed to have seen the same sort of healing happen in other people's marriages even with the last marriage encounter that we did was there was a moment there for another couple that was very much like what we had gone through.

Richard: 31:52

She's actually gone through counseling in here.

Shelli: 31:55

But the beauty is is that we know they're gonna get through it faster than we did because we didn't have anything. We didn't have

Richard: 32:00

We have no support through this.

Shelli: 32:02

We have no support.

Richard: 32:03

And we had a counselor that we went to and he said, you got 5% chance to survive in this. That was our Christian counselor, by the way. That was his first statement to us as we sat down. You have a 5% chance of survival. Sounds like a 100% to me.

Michael: 32:17

Because that that just demonstrates your willingness. Right? Like yours. Yeah.

Richard: 32:19

If you're not willing to go through the hurt and the and the fight and and to fight for each other, that's probably where the the likelihood of success fall. You have to fight for one another. You have to fight because not with one another for. And, and yes, along the

Michael: 32:34

way, prepositions change a lot of things.

Richard: 32:36

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah. And you have, you have the arguments, you have the disagreements, you have all of that stuff, but to not give up and and to fight for one another.

Michael: 32:45

And Yeah. It's good. In the process. That's good. Any concluding thoughts, Shelley?

Shelli: 32:50

No. Just thank you. Very blessed to be here and to do this and to have your guys' support. And we're we're learning a lot of things, and we the more we're learning, the more excited we're getting about what it is that God's doing and particularly in our area and how he's moving.

Michael: 33:07

Yeah. That's awesome. And I'm excited to see what else God does in Reno, Nevada. Thank you, guys. Thank you, guys, for listening.

Michael: 33:13

Again, remember, anything you'd like for us to talk about, issue specific things, please email us at topics that speak the truth. We'll see you guys next time.