Intro: 00:09

Welcome to Speak the Truth, a podcast devoted to giving biblical truth for educating, equipping, and encouraging the individual and local church in counseling and discipleship.

Michael: 00:19

Hello. We are back. We've been going. We've had a couple of episodes. I'm still at the made to minister conference 2024, and I'm joined with a guest today that who's been on the podcast several times.

Michael: 00:32

We've got Pete Pyleff with us. He has been on, and we did I think it was counseling through Proverbs or Psalms. I think it was Proverbs. Right? Proverbs.

Michael: 00:40

Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking through before we hit the record button here. And going back to the first time that I've met Pete, and him being on the podcast was in 2019, which was actually the first made to minister conference. Pete, how are we doing?

Pete: 00:52

Doing really good, man. It's great to have you guys out here in Oregon. I'm actually pumped that we're actually having a nice couple of days of weather because we don't it's typically cold and rainy still, but we got some sunshine, blue skies. You can see the mountains. So I think for folks from the Midwest or from Texas, they get to enjoy some of the scenery we get to see.

Michael: 01:10

Yeah. It just it's funny you say that. Landing in Portland, coming in, going to the airport, and the half mile trek to go get our luggage, I noticed there was one branch that we went through that had just nothing but windows. And where they were facing it, it was like I was walking through a sunbathing room. There was literally, like, 20 people lined up just laid out just in the sun, and I just started laughing.

Michael: 01:33

I'm like, that's right. They, okay. So apparently, this is a sunny day, but We're

Pete: 01:36

living our best life right now.

Michael: 01:39

Oh my gosh. It was funny. So and yesterday was actually beautiful. Yeah. Yeah.

Michael: 01:43

Emily came and picked us up and just to have the ride and and and see that. I just I love the greenery. Love the scenery. Yeah. It's, it's really good.

Michael: 01:51

But we're here at the May to Minister conference, and we're talking to a different Pete. 2019 Pete versus 2024 Pete. Pete, you're gonna be doing our 1st plenary session this evening. Correct?

Pete: 02:02

I'm actually doing tomorrow morning.

Michael: 02:03

Oh, tomorrow. Okay. No. That's right. Andrew is tonight.

Pete: 02:05

Yes.

Michael: 02:06

Andrew is tonight. So we got Andrew Daley from Austin Stone. He'll be with us. We have Jonathan Holmes. We got a great lineup, and I'm actually gonna be with Pete in our track.

Michael: 02:16

We're gonna be doing conflict resolution in our track. But today's episode, we're really gonna be focusing on the impact of counseling, ministry within the local church. And what's funny about that particular title is that in 2019, Pete wasn't in his current role at the time. And so just to have this conversation is a little apropos, I think. So I'm excited about that.

Michael: 02:38

But so, Pete, that's what we're gonna be talking about. And, obviously, you guys have done, just a tremendous work. And listeners, as you've heard a couple of episodes already, just the things that are going on out here in Salem, specifically in the Pacific Northwest. And, just to spend some time with Pete and to see how they're doing that in the local church, and he is the executive pastor at Salem Heights Church. And, Pete, if we could just maybe give us a a a brief track of where you were in 2019 and just the changes, where we are today, and then just how you've seen the impact of the counseling ministry within the local church.

Pete: 03:10

Yeah. Again, it's great to be back on the podcast and to have you guys back out here. In 2019, I was serving as the director of family life. I was overseeing a lot. I've been on staff now for 9 years and I I came in actually as a children's ministry person.

Pete: 03:25

And the commitment from our pastors and elders was, hey, we're gonna watch your life. We're not necessarily saying this is where we necessarily see your gifting, but we wanna bring you on our team and and let you grow. And wherever God grows you and whatever gifts are made clear to us, we won't prevent you from growing and and changing roles. And and so they've been true to that. So I've done a stint in every area of ministry.

Pete: 03:48

And so I'm currently since that time, last time you the for the first Made to Minister conference, yeah, I transitioned to the role of executive pastor in 2020 just before the pandemic. And part of that role also

Michael: 04:01

What a time to come into that role.

Pete: 04:02

Yeah. It was it was super fun. Super fun. But god knew all that, and it was actually really a great opportunity for Justin and I, our senior pastor, to just forge a bond that had already been decades old. Him, me and my mentor and a guy who's really poured into me.

Pete: 04:16

And it's been really fun to work with him the last several years in our role. And, a part of my responsibility has been to be the pastor overseeing counseling. And, man, that's just been so impactful to my life, the growth that I've experienced as a pastor. So, yeah, I'm super excited about this conversation, and I I just think it it has been transformational in our church. And we've already said that at the 1st May to minister conference, but it is continuing.

Michael: 04:41

It was at 5 years later roughly now?

Pete: 04:43

Yeah. It's continuing to thrive. And what I'm probably the most excited about is not just the ability for us to train other churches and to see other people be able to carry this out in their own context, because we don't wanna be the one stop shop for a biblical counseling in our area or in our city, but it's how it's continuing to impact our church and just the life of our church and how we view one another and the way we're coming alongside one another more intentionally.

Michael: 05:08

That's awesome because what's great about what you were saying, in the scope of 5 years, the impact of the counseling that that it's not only had in the life of Salem Heights, but also the impact even in 5 years later of the May to Minister 2024 conference. I was told that roughly 48 churches are gonna be present. And so that's church leaders, pastors, elders coming in and receiving and seeing the gospel presented through these particular issue specific things, right, that the gospel can speak to. And just the way that you put that though of the impact that it's had within, not only you personally, but then in your church and just the impact of building that culture within your church so that the intentionality of the one another's of scripture is actually and Justin and I were talking about this too when we were talking about evangelism, that biblical counseling and how evangelistic it it truly is, really. And we should understand it not just as the personal ministry of the word or yeah.

Michael: 06:06

But also the public ministry of the word. And then obviously, more so in y'all's context and seeing what's happening here in Oregon and just how god has confounded the wisdom of the state and man and that it can't sustain what it promised. It's not delivering what it promised, and now it's given an opportunity, the gospel, for the church. 100%.

Pete: 06:27

And and when we look at our church, not only is it growing through people being more intentional about sharing their faith, It's growing. Our church is experiencing growth because of the life change that's happening in one of the places in biblical counseling. And there are so many hurting people, you're just sending out light back into those dark spaces, and they're asking or they're saying, hey. I see this, and this is where I found help. And so the referral system and just the growth of the ministry, we had no intention to grow our church through this.

Pete: 06:59

We had a need in our own church and then we didn't wanna just keep that solution to ourself. We wanted to start reaching out to people, helping other churches, and helping other people in our community. And and that is just continued the referral system is just happening through people being changed by the word of God and our commitment to being biblical counselors, recognizing the the person as a whole. And I think not only saying that, hey, discipleship's important, biblical theology is important, Community body life's important. But part of that is we also have to walk through the challenges and the struggles of life.

Pete: 07:34

And even though the biblical counseling ministry is growing, it's also impacted just how we view small groups and community groups in our discipleship because we're really about one another care. We believe a lot of the ministry within the church that one another care can be and should be carried out by just everyday believers in the context of body life. And so our made to minister model is that every person who has a faith in Jesus, the word of God, and the spirit of God can come alongside another brother or sister in their time of need and bear that burden. And there's gonna be times where we all need the church to bear our burden.

Michael: 08:08

Yeah. That's really good because that reminds me made the minister ministers of reconciliation, man. 2nd Corinthians. And that's and I think because you did say something there in passing a moment ago of just within those challenges speaking of those challenges, what did you again, because this ministry within your church was not something that happened overnight. So there's been iterate iteration after iteration, change after change, development after development.

Michael: 08:36

What have been some of the notable changes or, excuse me, challenges that you've noticed? Because, again, I'm sure there's I know I talked to several people, pastors, and just others that I come in contact with. Just, man, what does that look like? I I hear it. It sounds good when I listen to the podcast, but, man, when they start to consider their challenges.

Michael: 08:54

So how what would be helpful was, like, what were some of the challenges that you've experienced that you guys work through and actually became better and more fruitful as a result of those challenges?

Pete: 09:03

Yeah. I think some of those challenges are just the perceived things that you have ahead of time. And again, the ministry was started and was already flourishing when I stepped into the role of just continuing to shepherd it. I think some of the challenges I hear from other pastors that are either in our class or some of the lay people that are coming to be trained and are not a part of our church and they're saying these are the questions my pastor has are this perceived idea of we're inviting a lot of issues, we're inviting a lot of heartache, headache, organization, potential concerns of the work demand, the messiness of it all, then you got the concerns logistically of where do you gonna get those people, how are you gonna run it, basically, organizationally. But what I would just tell those pastors is and what we tell our people is for those who wanna get trained in biblical counseling, we're actually not guaranteeing that you will serve as a biblical counselor at our church.

Pete: 10:01

The number one reason why we want you to take this class is so that you can actually understand how God sees you and how help how he'll help you with your own stuff. Like, the biggest value to this class is not coming out as the expert to go fix people. It's literally to have the blinders lifted on your own life to do the heart transformation of your own heart That just makes you suitable to be able to go say, this is what God's done in me, not this is what God needs to do in you. And so a lot of the people that come in our class, they take it and they don't necessarily feel equipped. And they're really they they need more training, but they're more open to do that just in the context of by life.

Pete: 10:35

So it's rather than a pastor or a church getting maybe hung up on all the details that comes on to launching a formal ministry, starting the training or bringing that into your church is literally just a discipleship tool. In fact, we have a church about 2 hours north of us just, in Washington state, white in White Salmon, Washington. And they, for years, were sending people down. They were driving 2 hours both directions to come and be trained. And they just launched their own training center within their church this year.

Pete: 11:02

And, they're doing they've got I think they have 12 students in their first class. And all these former students have formed a team, left lay people to teach the curriculum, and they've invited Emily and I to go teach, a couple of those classes. And they're youth pastors in the room, and he's I I had all these preconceived notions when they talked about starting biblical counseling, and all this is intensive discipleship. And we're, like, absolutely. It's just how do I apply God's words to real life?

Pete: 11:28

And so that's a big thing that I think for our church, we've torn down the stigma that we're not just trying to grow a ministry. We're not trying to make it all formal. We're not trying to just build a model. We're actually just trying to invite people into giving them the resources to first diagnose their own heart needs and their own and how they can experience heart transformation. And then what what happens out of that, it's either gonna happen organically to them just being part of body life, or for some of them, they actually go, I actually feel like this might be where God is wanting me to serve, And that's why our team continues to grow.

Pete: 11:58

And we're somewhere between 3540 counselors on our team who are all serving in a lay capacity. That means they're volunteering a certain amount of hours a week, and we're doing hundreds of hours of biblical counseling for people in our church and in our community. And to god be the glory, man. It's super cool to see.

Michael: 12:15

That is awesome. And just that last couple of ministers you were sharing and breaking that down a little bit was your the point about it's gonna grow you as a person. Yeah. It's gonna grow you as a person. But in in that, what came to mind textually is Matthew chapter 7 and just judging.

Michael: 12:34

It's like acknowledging the reality of the speck in your eye and it how much of a humbling tool it is.

Pete: 12:40

Totally.

Michael: 12:40

And then you begin to realize that and then you realize the reality of the gospel. You reach a depth of the gospel that you just didn't know before. And it hits you and impacts you first. And then secondly, you begin to realize, like, the extent depth that you just learned to the gospel and grace, now you can start to apply that. And then you just get a little bit better to understanding it so that you can share it a little more appropriately and so you grow in it, which is the goal.

Michael: 13:04

Right? And just that one another. And what's funny though is is some people like, man, that's a lot of reading and that's and to your point, you may not be called to be a biblical counselor, right, and serve in that capacity, but it's gonna make you a better believer.

Pete: 13:19

100%. And I think too, one of the things we tell people, because some people start the class and they get overwhelmed. For some people, it's been decades since they were in any kind of educational system. So we're giving them homework. If they're pursuing certification, through ABC, there's some exams and some papers and stuff like that.

Pete: 13:37

And there are always a a little bit of atrophy every year. But there are a number of people where we just talk and say, if it's the homework that's getting you bogged down, like, you don't have to be certified right now. You don't have to be serving, but don't drop out. There's actually so much more that you're gonna get out of that. So one of the things we we do in in our class, our ETC classes, is we start with a devotion that primes the heart for where the direction of the lesson's going.

Pete: 14:04

So that's 1, just worship. But 2, it also actually shows them again every time how the Bible actually speaks to real lives. We're actually breaking down, like, how would I use this passage to comfort someone who's angry or depressed or dealing with addiction. And I think every week they're just they're gonna get ministered just by that first 10 minutes of class. So we're just like, just hey.

Pete: 14:24

We'll get certified later. Just stay in the class. Let it continue to do the work that's gonna be done in you. And I think you can do that. I think having that kind of open handed approach.

Michael: 14:34

Mhmm.

Pete: 14:34

We've grown this slowly over years, and we we have vision. We have things we wanna do, but we're all always gonna remain committed to just we wanna be biblically just leading people in this process of being more intentional in their discipleship, and we believe the rest will take care of itself.

Michael: 14:52

So you as far as all of that and obviously 35 to 40 formal biblical counselors serving the church and the community here in Salem. And I think you mentioned also and, actually, Tara and Dave mentioned it as well as just the impact that it's had on small groups and just those other ministries. So your church knows, church being the people, Salem Heights know that I know when I go see somebody formally that I know where they're coming from because I was subject to it myself to some extent because there's that you've created that culture, and that's just a huge piece.

Pete: 15:29

Yeah. And so we're actually looking to take the next step, which is there we've recognized that there has become a little bit of a gap between church life and counseling unintentionally because we're all part of the same family. But one of the things is like I had a a little while ago, I had a one of our, women at the church had a friend she had brought. I don't believe this person was saved, but was really impacted by the message. And so she grabs the person the the our attender who brought this friend, grabs her friend's hands after the service, walks her over to me and says, pastor Pete, my friend would like, her marriage is really hard.

Pete: 16:04

Would really she really wants to do biblical counseling. And I'm like, that's great. But what we'd love for you to do is to, why don't you come alongside her? And so what we're trying to do do is develop that advocacy model Mhmm. That shows people that you don't have to send them to the the professionals within the church.

Pete: 16:25

There might be some people that could help with that specific issue at the beginning, but that advocate can just be that friend, that small group leader, that small group peer, could be someone that is just in the life group that you do, that can come with you, can listen, can reinforce what the counselor saying, pray for you, encourage you to stay in the process, because counseling can be hard. And then when you reemerge or when you finish that and you just continue on in body life, you have someone there that that's continuing to go on. And it just allows it there to be that kinda I think it we're working hard to to diminish the idea that you have to go to a biblical counselor to get help in our church. We not that that we don't we have that, but we have a lot other God has created the church to have a lot more resources than just a few trained people in our church. And but I think that was just a testament to the belief in our church culture that, like, my friend can get helped by our church.

Pete: 17:17

Yeah. And I know where to go. We have counseling. Let me help you get signed up. That's huge that they believe in it.

Pete: 17:23

That because they've seen the transformation in it. Yeah. And so our church has actually seen the value of it. And so now as we're investing dollars to develop more counseling rooms and more training space, our church people are giving above their normal offerings to help us build that space because they see the impact. And And as you already heard with pastor Justin, like, we believe that this is not just a a ministry for our church.

Pete: 17:43

We believe this is the the point of the spear for evangelism in the community. So No.

Michael: 17:48

I appreciate that because contextually speaking, again, where you are state wise, The state has tried to step in in that role, and it just wasn't able to deliver. Going back to what we were saying a minute ago, it's just and so now you guys have just ample gospel opportunity.

Pete: 18:04

Oh, yeah. And they're at their wits. It's funny because people are at the point where they'll even try church now because this

Michael: 18:10

That is a place that actually cares. And so now when they look at the church because pastor Justin did mention that too where it's like people and he was using an analogy. He was referring to somebody else who had said this, but just realizing that people will pass by the church unintentionally and not look at it as a place that actually cares. Yeah. I can't remember.

Pete: 18:26

Yeah. And and to to hear that we actually mean what we say, but it's not just Jesus loves you. It's not just spiritual platitudes.

Michael: 18:36

Right.

Pete: 18:36

We actually desire to show you Yep. What God has provided for you through Jesus Christ.

Michael: 18:41

And that is amazing. And just just to wrap up here as we do, just any final encouragement to really those who are thinking through these things. Just a just a final word of encouragement, maybe to a pastor or maybe that lay leader who is sensing the the calling to they're pretty galvanized by the idea. They really wanna step into that, but they're just a little fearful because they don't think their church is gonna really maybe be an early adopter of it. It's gonna they're seeing the fears and the disappointments behind it to where it's they're not wanting to really pursue it, but they they sense it.

Pete: 19:17

Yeah. What I would encourage them to consider is starting with 1 small group, one group of people who could use the curriculum that ABC has the ETC training or there's a lot of other great stuff that you can start you out on the road of one another care, soul care, those types of things. And just allow that group to go through that. What would it look like to help somebody else? What does that look like, for that to do the one another care in the church?

Pete: 19:46

Start there and watch that begin to grow because what will happen is even if you don't start a formal ministry, those people will leave more engaged to just be more alert. Their eyes are gonna be up. Their heads gonna be up, their who's hurting, they're gonna move towards them. A lot of the churches in our area because not only do we have a number of churches coming to the conference, we have a number of churches in town who were trained at Salem Heights who now have. We're having the conference this week at Morning Star Church.

Pete: 20:12

It's a neighbor church of ours because our church is under They have their own ministry now. They've sent people to be trained. They've started it and they've said come use our building. We're so thankful for the partnership. That's a beautiful thing.

Pete: 20:25

And so it's start small and watch it just change the culture of the one another care in your church, but you gotta teach towards it. You gotta teach how do I actually help somebody who comes to me and says, hey. My marriage is in shambles. Or, hey. I'm really struggling with my thoughts.

Pete: 20:39

Or, hey. I've really experienced some season of loss. How do I help somebody in that one another care and not say we gotta send them to the pastor? Start there and you'll see God who God has gifted you who might be who might be key in starting something more officially down the road.

Michael: 20:55

That's good. So yeah. Toil. It is a worthwhile toil. 100%.

Michael: 20:59

It is a worthwhile toil.

Pete: 21:01

100%.

Michael: 21:01

It is a worthwhile toil. Pete, I appreciate it. I know we've got, we gotta get going because you gotta prepare and get some rest, and we got a good weekend ahead of us. Yeah. But, again, to our listeners, thank you.

Michael: 21:11

And, again, if you're listening and as we've been trying to do in this little miniseries here at the made to minister conference of just really focusing on what care looks like in the church and formalizing it, the impact of it in your own context. Remember, these podcasts are hopefully for you so that you can just be encouraged and galvanized. Trust what the Lord is putting on your heart. At the end of the day, that biblical counseling is, as Pete mentioned several times over, is that it's just intensive discipleship. It's intentional.

Michael: 21:40

It's intensive. Sometimes it's issue specific. And, yes, sometimes there may need to be some formal counseling involved. But at the end of the day, this is just new testament one anothering. And so we love you.

Michael: 21:53

We thank you. Again, if you have any questions or if you have any topics you'd like for us to talk about, please email us at topics at speak the truth dot org. We love you. We thank you. We'll catch you next time.