Hello? Hello? Hello. We are. Again, back in studio and is Jeremy and I continuing our. Mini series on social anxiety disorder, Jeremy, how you doing brother? I'm doing wonderful. Thank you. Good. I would encourage you guys. If you have not listened to the previous two podcasts in this mini series, I would encourage you to go do that. As this part, we are going to conclude. From a biblical perspective. The thoughts that we had introduced last episode. So I would encourage you to go listen to those. And then in this episode, we're really going to focus on Jeremy.

I think it's important. Just to wrap this up to look at. The idea of sin versus suffering. Which really points us. To enlarge, agreed to physiology. Yep. And maybe also just wrap up with just.

Thoughts and beliefs just very quickly. Very generally. I think that would be helpful. No, that's good because I think that's, in terms of Biblical theology and just the redemptive history and redemptive story of all of our lives as we find ourselves and the, as theologians call it the already. And not yet. Of just being where we are and struggling with the things that we do and knowing Christ and yet being very familiar. With our sin and our weaknesses. Those things that make us very human. Very broken and yet very redeemed. So with that, just looking at that with a couple of different parts of, we talked last episode a little bit. Of just the reality of sin and fear. Fear of man, we introduced a couple. A couple. Resources to help with that as well as some really good homework for the putting off and putting on and being able to encourage someone who's struggling with social anxiety disorder, too. Be able to capture their thoughts. At the cognitive level, what are they thinking? The affectionate level, what are they feeling? What are they believing? And then at the volitional level what are they doing? What are they committed to? How committed are they to their fears and isolating and all of those things. And then in this episode, really gonna focus on just the reality of suffering and just the juxtaposition between those those two things within the same reality, which oftentimes is probably one of the most debilitating realities of anxiety. So yes. Yeah. And when we are dealing with people with any form of anxiety Those folks. Are experiencing a lot of torment. They experience a lot of mental torment. But they also experience a lot of physical torment. Because the responses that are occurring in their bodies is. Pretty much in voluntary. Yeah. If they're going into social settings For example, they walk into Walmart and their body begins to experience palpitations, sweaty palms, sometimes dizziness. Difficulty breathing. Stomach churning, sweating. Those are things that are happening without them just deciding let's start doing those things. Yeah. To that point really quickly. Jeremy, how many clients have you had where they came in and they were talking about, man, I thought I was having a heart attack. And it's just these manifestations. Very common. Especially with panic disorder and panic attacks. It's not unusual. If a person has that, that they've been to the ER, two or three or four times. They are having a heart attack because heart palpitation. Is one of the, it's just one of the things that happen. It's a reality. When a person is feeling anxious. And so as biblical counselors, we don't want to ignore that. Yeah. In, in this. Resource that we mentioned before, which is just a wonderful work. A labor of love for the church. It's a lot of work. The Christian's guide to psychological terms. They mentioned in their psychological descriptions, the physiological things that happen. They mentioned palpitations, shaking, sweating, abdominal pain, muscle tension, flushed, face confusion. So they mentioned those things. Which are all physiological. But when I look at the biblical approach item, I'm not seeing much, I don't see anything on what do we do about that? How do we counsel the person? As it regards to this. Physical fallen body. That's going out of control on all on its own. So with that, as the assumption, if you just focus on the spiritual, then it'll just naturally work itself out physiologically. That could be an assumption. I'm not sure, but for my perspective, I think it's very important. To include the physiological in as part of our care. Yeah. Because there is such a physiological piece to anxiety. There's a lot going on in my body. That is influencing that struggle and, We are fearfully and wonderfully made, and God cares about our body in scripture. Paul talks about there will be a day. We're not going to be floating disembodied spirits. You haven't in the new earth. We will have new bodies. Yeah. So the Lord is an anxious bodies. Full of joy and glory and goodness and righteousness. Yes. Yes. And the body. Until that time comes, the body is a very important part of us. Developing. Fruit of the spirits such as self-control yeah. A fruit of the spirit such as peace. Yep. And I probably referenced this in the last S. A podcast that we did on anxiety in general. But Romans 12, one and twos. Wonderful place to take people to help them just gain a sense of purpose in how they can use the body as part of the process of change. And Paul says to this, Paul says this in Romans 12 one, I appeal to you. Therefore, brothers. By the mercies of God. To present your bodies as a living sacrifice holy and acceptable to God. Which is your spiritual act of worship. There it is. Yeah. And so isn't it wonderful. This is where we are going to profoundly distance ourself, or maybe go far deeper. Maybe I'll say it that way. Then the cognitive sciences. Yeah. The cognitive sciences are going to focus on the body. As a matter of fact if you read the literature in cognitive psychology you're going to come across the word habituation over and over and over. And habituation was the phrase that Jay Adams used way back in 1970 in his Nouthetic model towards change. And it was very much focused on habit. And habit with your body. What are you doing? That is an explicitly biblical category. Yeah. Explicitly. And the beautiful thing that we bring or that scripture brings into the process of transformation. Is that what I do with my body, what I do, the habits that I begin to exercise in my body with my body. Can actually be an act of worship to God. It's a spiritual act of worship. He is connecting. Body and spiritual worship all there at the same time. And that gives us an existential purpose in all of this too, that anytime I'm going out and my body starts. Doing what it does. As I go out and apply what I'm learning in counseling with my body. I am actually worshiping God. So if it's difficult, if it's challenging if I feel like I'm stubbing my toe and stumbling and not making much progress, and I go back to the house feeling defeated. One of the things that I can bring back with me is, what. I it. The outcome. Quote was not what I wanted. But I worship God. That was my intention. That was my tele illogical aim. Is that no matter how this goes, when I. Try to just drive into the parking lot of a Superstore. And experience whatever I experience. If I'm not able to control my symptoms. That's not the point. The point is when I did that. In the midst of all the chaos of my social anxiety. There was worship going on and God was glorified. And at the end of the day that's the target, that's the bullseye. And then we're aiming towards no, that's good. That actually, cause here we are quoting Romans 12, two chapters before that, not quite verse wise, but. Or excuse me, first Corinthians, not Romans first Corinthians 10 31. Whether you eat, whether you drink, whatever you do all the glory of God. And so Paul's reemphasizing that point. And then I would even suggest obviously the the reformers and the Westminster Confession of faith, the first reality, the first question is what's the aim of man. What's the point of it? To glorify God and enjoy him forever. Yes. That's it like that literally sums up our purpose. As you mentioned teleologically the tell us, what's the goal? What's our aim like that is our aim. And. When you share that with people going back to our first episode of. God being our refuge and our strong tower and his presence, understanding and recognizing his power and control. All of a sudden alleviates us. Needing our feeling like we need to have control. Yes. And just begins to loosen that. Yes. So that's actually really powerful in the process of helping somebody struggling with anxiety to get them theologically speaking, to see.

To see that reality. And to see them obviously giving them growth assignments and helping them with that thought process of saying man, what it means to humble myself under God's mighty hand. But he cares for me. Yes. First Peter five, seven, just like he cares for me. That's right. And I can cast that on him and maybe casting it on him. And we're going to talk about this. So I don't want to take too much of that, but just. Casting it on him as a suffer and a center in a saying all of those three. Thank you, Michael Hamlet. But just those three things coming in to re recognizing that. Man. The Lord.

Cares for me and caring for me. Can meet me in the moment of my biggest weakness, where I'm struggling with anxiety, where my S my palms are sweaty. The aisle is narrowing and Costco is I go into it, but like I can stand on the side of the aisle and. And just embrace this moment and recognize God's presence in this moment. Yes, I can just go ahead and the and actually engaging. My body to move into context. That I'm afraid to move into. So there's experience going on there? Yup. Think about. Abraham. And Isaac. And what God called Abraham to do. I couldn't imagine a more anxious moment. I couldn't imagine the more anxious moment. But God, didn't say Abraham.

I would like to tell you to go up and sacrifice your son on the mountain. But I'm not going to do that because I just, because you'd already know I'm a faithful God. It's like action experience. What does he do? He put him into a very challenging experience and it's through the experience. Of trusting God as my rock. As one who does care for me. Going through that experience of God's faithfulness in delivering the Ram in the Bush.

That had to build Abraham's faith, that experience of moving into that and experiencing God's faithfulness, experienced him. Experiencing God as my rock. Had to be a profound. Element in building his fate. And, Paul is pointing to the. The faithfulness of Abraham that counted him righteous. That's a very important part of our faith. Yeah. In terms of justification. And so creating these experiences where folks are going out with the mindset of worshiping God, and then as they experience. The goodness of the Lord in those models? None, not that they didn't have anxiety. But that life didn't end. And what did they trust in that moment? They didn't trust the anxiety or the fear in that anxiety. They trusted the Lord trusted. The Lord in the face of anxiety. And that's where Paul continues to move forward in Romans. And this is where the work is happening. Don't be conformed to the world. But be transformed by the renewal of your mind. That by the test that by testing, you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. But it's an offering my body that I'm given opportunity do not to conform to the world. And we might say just my world of assuming. Social places are dangerous or too humiliating to move into. I'm not going to conform to that anymore. I'm going to use my body. Move into these uncomfortable places, experience the faithfulness of God. And then through that experience, be transformed by the renewing of my mind. Because now I'm experiencing what I'm reading in the sacred scriptures. It sounds like a reconditioning. And, but yes. But to that point, and I think there's, been thematically speaking kind of the point of what we're driving to in these episodes is. Is its body. And yes. Material and immaterial. Yes. Both have to fully experience something. At least, in the existential sense for us to fully embrace her, know something where our senses are engaged in this very thing. Yes. To your point about Abraham, if God just, I told him and gave him this theatrical version of what was going to happen. But, I don't need you to do that cause I know, but no, he had him go through those things. Yes. And like in Romans 12 here, it starts. Your mind and body. Both are engaged. They have to be engaged. Yes. Otherwise it's not fully experienced. And it was through experience like Deuteronomy eight it's through experience that God was exposing the heart to see. Do they really believe that man lives by bread alone are on every word that proceeds from the mouth of God it's through the experience. And so as biblical counselors, we don't want to just sit on a couch and talk theology with people. We want to move them into their fears. With biblical truth and help them begin to experience what the Bible. Tells us is true about the living God. And that w. I think what's beautiful about that reality is it helps the. Constantly or a client, whatever context you're in. It helps the, it helps that person. See the beauty and faithfulness and goodness of God. In the midst of their anxiety? Yes. And just the process of trusting him. And I want to say to some that might. Struggle with this idea. I'm not saying our faith is based on our experience. Our faith is based on God's word and what he tells us about his word, but we grow more intimately with the Lord, obviously through his word. But when we experienced the beauty and truth of his word through our lives, It just deepens things and the body is a part of that. As is the spirit and the mind. So it's unfortunate that because they're such a, level of credulity when it comes to experiencing something as Christians, because there's a lot of movements in the Christian world, so to speak where it's driven by experience, they got to share things, but. But we can't negate that either, just because it's hyper. Emphasized. Yeah, it's hyper emphasized on that other side, but you can't dismiss it just because it's used improperly over here. Or it's abused over here. You can't just throw it out. It's the same, you just mentioned the first question in the Westminster confession.

We are to glorify, but what else? Enjoy. Yeah. So there's an enjoyment of God. There can be, if we situate it this way in our counseling, there, we can make. Moving beyond social anxiety disorder, not about symptom alleviation, but enjoying God and his faithfulness. And goodness, as I navigate things that feel really uncomfortable to me. It's no different in my opinion. And that's worship. And it's no different than, First Corinthians 10 31. If I'm eating a steak and it tastes wonderful. Just appreciating that I'm enjoying God in his goodness that he created taste buds and capacity to. To enjoy. That and to provide the meat I'm pleasuring his good pleasure. Like he made me this way and he wants me to enjoy it. That's right. When I indulge in over. Yeah. And overcoming or navigating anxiety can actually be an exercise of learning what it means to enjoy God. Yeah, and I think that's, I think that's part of its purpose. In other words, It's learning to submit your experience to the good pleasure of God. Yes. Because that's typically what happens. But that's the whole reality of the fall is we like to. Autonomously speaking. I want to experience my feelings, even though they're guys in the sense that he gave me these a beautiful desires and emotions and the ability to experience something as a human being. But I want to do it my own perverted sinful way. Versus enjoying it in his context that he, and so and what's funny about. Social anxiety disorder in, in one real sense, it's helping. Those individuals. S re recondition, but then ultimately submitting to and helping them see that it's actually good. Yes, that's it's actually a beautiful honoring moment to realize as the counselor that we get to going back to your point about the experience that we actually get to be a part of facilitating. That experience and helping them. And that, to me, that's a level of care that man, you can't. That's right. That's a beautiful thing. Any final thoughts as we wrap up here, Jeremy, with just concluding and trying to land the plane of what we've been talking about over social anxiety disorder and just maybe an encouragement to the. Counselors out there. Yeah. So for the counselors. Just like Mike just mentioned. Just recognize the beauty of your role and just the honor. That we have as people of God to bring the beauty of God. To people who are struggling to pay through a struggle. Yeah, through a struggle. And that's, that was written into their story before the foundations of the world for the purpose of God's glory. And so never forget that. Anxiety can be a tough animal, so to speak. Don't get discouraged in that. Always remember that. The holy spirit in the room is more faithful and committed than we will ever be as counselors. And he's at work in his people. And if you struggle with anxiety Hopefully something we've said here today is inviting you to be. To move towards this God who is a refuge who loves you, who cares for you? Who is not looking down his nose at you. Matter of fact. Jesus, the Messiah experienced anxiety in the garden have guessed 70. It was miserable. And so he moves towards you in that. And invite you to move towards him. As your ultimate strength to navigate. The contours of anxiety. Yeah, it was beautiful. It just, as I'm sitting here, like trying to summarize just the reality of what we're talking about, it's just. I don't know if this would be redundant, but just to like the paradoxical irony of you mean I can actually grow closer to God through something that I believe is actually not good. And God's using this thing. That's not good, actually producing good by drawing me closer to him. It's beautiful. And just again, thank you guys for listening. And again, please engage with us subscribe and talk with us in the comments and let us know what your thoughts are and let us know what else you'd like to hear. We'd love to hear from you. We'll talk to you guys next time.

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