Welcome to speak the truth. Podcast devoted to giving biblical truth for educating. Equipping and encouraging the individual and local church and counseling and discipleship.

Hello? Hello? Hello. We are in fact back in studio. Speak to truth. I am continuing along in our mini series on social anxiety disorder with Jeremy, Jeremy, how you doing brother? Doing fantastic. Good. We are. Missing Shauna. Yeah, Sean is not here. Matter of fact, she's not going to be in any of these. So if you guys miss her lovely photo that I put in the last mini series, because she didn't want to put herself in the frame. Yeah. But she will be back soon. We look forward to having her back. So you guys please feel free to put in the comments on the videos that Shauna we miss you. We want to see your lovely, beautiful face. Please come back. At any rate, we are continuing our mini series on social anxiety disorder. Last episode. Jeremy established for us. Just really what the diagnostic and statistical manual from a number five. And sort of those descriptors and symptomologies of social anxiety disorder. And provided just some examples of what that looks like. And then also more specifically. For the Christian. And then he talked a little bit about, of just in his private practice, being able to obviously see everybody, but primarily for him and his, his practice it's Christians. And so some of those specific struggles that they have in their social anxiety disorder, as it relates to guy, which is where we want to move this discussion is focusing on.

All right. What does all that have to do with God? And how is this person in, in individual seeing God. And primarily, as we talked about last episode with some of those symptomologies just the, the sorta generalized fear that's at play constantly for the most part in these individuals that are struggling with this. Versus do they not see or understand or have this fear of God present when they're experiencing that? So we're going to talk a little bit about presence and kind of what that looks like and sounds like. And so Jeremy, you want to kick us off brother. Yes. So we ended just talking about the idea that this manual that was put together by the American psychiatric association. Can give us some helpful, descriptive information about a person's experience. And then they categorize that into a diagnosis. And then the one we're looking at is social anxiety, but. As biblical counselors we have in front of us, the task. Of kind of re-interpreting some of those descriptors in such a way. That connects us to the world that the Bible speaks of. And so that's what I think we will begin to do today. Yeah. Certainly when you're looking at diagnoses in a manual. You're not going to seek anything whatsoever about God. I mean, it's just, it's. It's non-existent. And so that's something I think that is very important for us. As biblical counselors is, we've got to make sure that in our care for others, That God is central to that process. And. There's a lot of wonderful resources out there in the biblical counseling community. On anxiety. And one of those is the Christian's guide to psychological terms. By. Marshall and Mary Asher. And they've done a very thorough job. Gosh, this thing has got over 200 pages. That's where they have gone a lot of disorders. We've looked at all of these different psychological terms and in there doing that good task of kind of re-interpreting those descriptors from a biblical perspective and even give some. Some suggestions on how you might address the issue, which the DSM really doesn't do that, but, but they've done that in their manual here. But as I read through. Their, their way of doing that. It just occurs to me that there is. There is a range within biblical counseling of how we all might come to a situation like social anxiety disorder. Yeah. And so what that means is Jeremy perspective is not the perspective on how to deal with this. Through my experience, I'm doing the very best I can biblically. To address an issue. And so I think as biblical counselors in the biblical counsel community, we want to allow for that latitude. Yeah. We don't all need to be clones of each other so long as we're adhering to biblical truth. And so, as I read through how these wonderful people, the Ashers have come to this issue it strikes me. Fairly quickly that I would probably come at it a little differently. Not to say that I disagree with the concepts that they're bringing forth because they're actually good. And I agree with most of it. But one of the things that I, that comes to me is, and this is this. This is a fair point to brew. When a person is struggling with social anxiety to begin to discuss the fear of man. And the fear of God that that's a good and appropriate discussion. , as a practitioner. Who deals a lot with people struggling with anxiety. I might come to this to bring God into the process. I don't know if I would start with, you need to learn or we need to learn. How to live in the fear of God. Because with the people that I'm working with who are believers, that can be a little bit confusing if that's what I'm starting out of the gate with. Right. Because it just kind of feels like, okay, I'm supposed to go from one fear to another fear and.

And I know we tried to describe the fear of God as being the, all of God. But sometimes if you're wrestling with anxiety, that might not be the most helpful way to approach bringing God into the process. So it's like putting off. Personal fear and putting on godly fear. Okay, well, to your point, that may be a bit confusing and it may be. Putting off. That fear, but understanding and seeing God in a different light that actually dispels that fear. Yes. And we've got to consider the spiritual maturity of the person that we're working with. So that, that idea of fear of God, to someone that's. Not deeply rooted in scripture. It could just bring some confusion and I'm not at all disagreeing with the importance of believers, living in the fear of the Lord. That's very important. But when you're dealing with some very sensitive topics and sensitive people yeah. What might be a more compassionate way to. To enter into that conversation that might lead to at some point the concept of the fear of the Lord, but is that where we want to begin for me? I see some wonderful ways to bring God into the process. That would actually maybe draw people to this person that we're, we, we know as God, right. Who is this person in and how is he even relevant when I'm walking out my door, ready to face a world that terrifies me. And so I just kind of perused a few of the Psalms and Psalm 27 1. Kind of describes God is the Lord who is our stronghold? The Lord is the one who will prove strong and sufficient in my moments of weakness, in my moments where it feels like my body is out of control or I'm trying to manage my body to the point. That it. Causes a panic attack. But to know that I'm not alone in that there I have. The Lord is my strong hold or a Psalm 28 1. The Lord is my rock. And he listens. So he's a foundation. Anxiety can feel like I'm in quicksand and I'm helpless and I'm alone and I'm isolated. But when we remember that, God is our rock. He is, he is our stability. Yeah. And he's committed to our stability in him. And by his spirit empowering us. To engage in the process of sanctification in such a way. That this, this social anxiety can actually beat. Eliminated from our lives. And the idea that not only is he our stability, but he's listening. Mm, that's a beautiful thought. To know that. As we get deeper into methodology that we're actually, when we go out. We are not alone. We're with someone who listens we're with someone we can talk to. And get our minds fixed elsewhere. When the temptation to simply fixate on other people and their perspectives of me. Mike. Bye might be Loring me. Or Psalm 31. One, the Lord is my refuge. For the person with social anxiety. Where do they find refuge? They find it in isolation. They find it in escape. And the more that they. Create habits of isolation and escape. The more they become enslaved to anxiety, the bigger that giant becomes. Right. Versus reorienting them and saying, Hey. We want to leave this pseudo refuge, this false refuge that you have created in your heart and mind. And we want to push you to walk out into culture and society and. Let's learn progressively. What does it mean in those moments? When it feels really scary that God is my refuge. Or that my refuge is to be able to control. Ticks that might start when I'm getting anxious. Or a refuge and being able to control my heart palpitations. These are false refuges. And what a part of the care is to teach people when the body starts acting up, so to speak. That controlling. That is not our refuge. That's not where we're going to find safe. Do we find refuge and a God who does not judge us in those moments, but who is with us and who is, is committed even to bringing comfort in those in those times? No, that's really good because what. What I think that that does Jeremy, is it. It demonstrates the benefit of that fear of God. Right. Except it's that's right. It's drawing attention to. Those benefits in. The result of that fear and it really demonstrates a three fold sort of reality in terms of exposing. Not necessarily just by, Fear and, and that whole, that whole point you made a moment ago, but helping them realize, like we've got to recondition, you you've been. You're isolating yourself. And that's where in your own ability for power and control. The impact that it has on your presence versus understanding God's power and control in his presence, because those are the three things that are at work in these, these Psalms that you're talking about. Yes. Right. It's acknowledging the reality of those, which ultimately goes back to your point of just the presence of God. And yes. And understanding and being able to truly put that on and for a believer who's been entrenched in and just entangled in that anxiety. To the point where habitually they've just conditioned themselves. Because they don't want to experience it. And so it's helping them see the beauty of actually. Trusting the Lord and how that gradually happens. Yes. So that's good. Yes. And I would say. I'm. I'm approaching this with someone from a slightly different angle in terms of God. Right? Who is he's our refuge. He's our strong hold. He's. Our rock who listens? He's an. At continuous presence. He's a relentless lover and faithful Redeemer, Psalm 57 3. But at the same time, what I might do. Is also recommend to them. When people are big. And God is small. Which is a good unpacking of this idea of the fear of the Lord. So I want the, as were. Kind of working together to see this beautiful side of this amazing person. Who is with us and for us in our weakness. Yeah. I would also have them reading something. That's doing a great job of digging into this construct of the fear of God. In such a way that brings understanding. If that makes sense. We're not ignoring that idea. We just want to be. Very careful how we're bringing that into the conversation. Yeah. It's like crafting a diamond. It's like, It's looking at different angles and it's the same thing, but how we see it and helping them understand that versus just like hitting them with the root of the issue. Yes. Which is helpful and eventually we'll get there. It will, right. It's sorta like proximate. Good and ultimate good. Yes. Right. And just being able to help them understand that process. If I can help a person who's already struggling terribly. Ari thinks God is probably disappointed in them. If I can help them work through complicated. Concepts like the fear of the Lord in a, in a, in a way that's helpful for them to assimilate. The beauty of God. Into their struggle. Then as a biblical counselor, I think that I have a responsibility to do that with gentleness and kindness, meaning the person. Where they are. Yeah, that's good. Yeah. That's good. That's good. So any, anything else you would do like with somebody who comes in with that and kind of, you've already, obviously getting to that point of like helping them understand and see. This fear of God, rightly. And just getting there in a couple of different ways in approaching a little differently. What else? How would you like after establishing that and you, giving them materials. With the word and then supplemental material. What are some other things that you would do? Outside of them reading. Cause then there's obviously just the practicing right. Encouraging them to recondition those things. Yes. So how, what, what would that look like? Yeah. So on our website, Christian counseling.com. And a lot of resources on there, but one of, two of the resources that are there. Are called put off. And that's a series, a it's like five or six or seven handouts. And then put on. And so I would probably begin to describe one of the handouts in that series. Called the motivation log. And just begin to introduce them to the lens that we're going to use. So, yeah. The DSM can tell us some descriptions, but let's go to the heart and see, okay, what can we do? Practically that will. That will have an effect on the symptoms that you are. Struggling with and. And the, the motivation log is going to look at several categories that I would work with. And we'll talk a little more about some of this in. In the next couple of series, but or episodes. But it's going to look at the situation. So what kind of situations tend to create these experiences for you of anxiety? Yeah. It's going to ask them to look at their thoughts and their belief systems about people. About God, about about the situation. It's going to have them identify emotionally. What is there? And it's primarily anxiety obviously on this one. Yeah. I bet it can also be depression. A lot of times when a person is diagnosed with social anxiety disorder or any anxiety disorder. You're, you're gonna see coupled with that diagnosis, depression. Because it's an overwhelming. Kind of hopeless feeling when you, when you're anxious and feel you cannot control that it can, it can just beat a person down. And so I want them to begin to recognize this. Isn't just anxiety. There's depression. Is there shame? Is there a sense of guilt we will so that I want, I want them to learn to connect with emotionally what is happening to you? So biblical counselors, we cannot demean emotion. Yes. Our emotions deceitful. Yes, but emotions are also insightful. They can, they, they, they might be revealing some things about our hearts that we need to think about and reconsider. And then there's a column that is very important for biblical counseling on this motive law called desires. So we're always looking at the desires of the heart and then a major piece in terms of getting past something like social anxiety is behavior habit. What am I doing? So I would introduce them to that. And probably even the first meeting, give that log to them and say, This next week. Are the next few days before I see you again. You are on a quest of data gathering. I need you to gather data in real time. And I want you to, if you feel this anxiety, I want you to go to this log and I just want you to log in each of these categories, what happened? Bring it to our next meeting and we'll begin to process. That's good. It's kind of like. You're you're helping them realize the root system. Yes. Their heart or the nervous system. If you will. Speaking of anxiety and just the biological reality of it, but just, there's more things going on that influences and that's held conditioning, that anxiety that we're trying to introduce them to. Because all they see is the anxiety. Yes. So helping them understand. Those different pieces, shame, guilt. Depression. Desires, all of those things. So it's, it's being able to look at the entire root system. Which is going to help them. And that's the encouraging part of what you're suggesting with the, the journaling, the specific journaling within those categories. It's just, it's helping them see their own heart in real time. Yes. And how they're processing or not processing or choosing or not choosing and how that works in their lives.

So, yes. And, and it's, it's. Kind of reshaping the picture for them. The late Dr. David Paulson used to talk about it's a wonderful analogy. Heat focus versus heart focus. And so people that are struggling with anxiety are tending to focus on controlling the quote heat. That heat being situation or? Yeah. And that can feel very daunting because you don't have control over those things except isolating, or just going and being miserable. But what the, what the log does, it helps them begin to rehone their focus that it's not about changing my circumstances necessarily. It's about beginning to examine what's going on in my heart as well as my body. Yeah. And those things are where the holy spirit. Is very much at work in as I began to trust in the scriptures. And lean on the power of the holy spirit. That's where transformation can change, can occur. Yeah, that's good. That's really good. Well, great. Well, this is a good stopping point for this episode. Thank you guys for listening. Remember, go ahead and subscribe. If you have not, and please engage with us in the comments. And let us know your thoughts on this and if there's anything else that you'd like us to engage with again there's a lot of these. DSM sort of diagnoses and what they call disorders. But our culture is riddled with these things and, and this is a good conversation and discussion for us. To, to have, as we all engage with these things. So thank you guys for listening and we'll catch you all next time.

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