Welcome to Speak the Truth, a podcast devoted to giving biblical truth for educating, equipping, and encouraging the individual and local church and counseling and discipleship.

Hello, hello, hello, hello, hello.

Yo, yo, yo. What's up? Hey, there it is. There it is. Jeremy is still with us and I stand corrected.

Last episode, I was all talking like that was the end of our mini series on anxiety. And it is not. We actually have one more, I guess we'll call this a bonus episode. but then as Jeremy keeps writing his book, we'll have more episodes, right? So even this one's not ended, it just will That might be a big reveal right there.

Have a little gap, Which we're going to be talking about goal setting? Yes. Correct? Yes. So, and I don't want to Reveal too much about Jeremy's book and what he's working on, but I think it's going to be probably one of the most practical helps to biblical counseling as far as starting to have material that's more engaging for the counselee.

So that is going to be super helpful and I can't wait to actually see it and hold it and use it.

But yeah, so we're going to be talking about goals today. again, the previous three episodes talking about anxiety using the DSM and doing a survey of modern psychology and their approach to anxiety, and then we did a biblical conceptualization of anxiety, and then we did the four R's, some alliterations Jeremy, what were they?

Well, yeah. What are the four R's? Yeah. I thought I was going to ask you. Reframe, I think is the last one. Yeah. Let me. Reorient is another one. Recognize. Let me. Recognize. Okay. So I got two out of the four. Reorient, reframe. It's recognizing the anxiety loop. Ooh. Reorienting motives for reading scripture.

I got it. Reframing freedom and reinforcing the right battle. Reinforcing. Nice. And then this episode is Setting Goals and Motivation for Change. Ah, there it is, there it is. That's good because like Jeremy shared in the previous podcast with the case study and the lady was praying, and Sally, I forgot Sally's name, sorry, Sally, fabricated Sally, but, just being able to use that and so helping goal set with the right motivation in this time. So with no further ado, Jeremy, lead us out, brother.

Well, I'm going to say something real quick. Oh, there you go. Four podcasts later. What I, what I think that the listeners are thinking is, Jeremy, you need to be on more of our podcast.

So doing this anxiety thing, I think has been really awesome to sit in here and listen to you. Help us learn in this area not only become better counselors, but I think this helps our own hearts and lives and thinking about that and being able to help others. this is awesome.

So right. I'm speaking for the listeners. Jerry, we need more of you on this podcast cause I think this is very informative and good. So would you say you're speaking the truth? Yeah, I'm speaking the truth right now. What's up? So anyway, okay. All right. Now, Jeremy, I really reached for that. That was a good, how to set goals and motivations for change.

How do we do that, Jeremy?

All right, so we do know that in counseling, Setting goals can be a very hopeful initial task. When people have goals and they know where they're headed it helps make sense a little bit more of the process. And it gives them something to work towards. And so, person coming I'll definitely listen and get a pulse on what they're struggling with.

We're talking about anxiety here. And then I'll ask him, you know, what are some goals that one or two or three goals that you would like to achieve in counseling? And typically it's the obvious answer of, I would like to get rid of this anxiety. And I would like to no longer struggle with anxiety, learn tools to do that.

And that's great. And that's what we hope can happen as we work together. That is our prayer. Is that this person who is suffering would no longer have to suffer to that level anymore. I don't respect those goals. I don't downplay them at all, but I also want to put in front of them goals that scripture would point us towards.

So I would possibly give them a verse like Proverbs 3, 5, Trust in the Lord with all of your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. And then maybe part of their homework is I want you to read that verse, and I want you to formulate a goal. Like for yourself, personalize that passage. Or Hebrews 4, 15 through 16.

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin, let us, let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need. And again, I would have them right.

Their own personal goal based on that passage and then a third second Corinthians 12, eight through 10 three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that I should, that it should leave me. But he said to me, my grace is sufficient for you. My power is made perfect in weakness. Therefore, I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses so that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, for when I am weak, then I am strong. Those are very different goals than probably what they came into the door thinking but it's reorienting them to the priorities of the Lord that we would grow in our trust in him, that we would learn not to shame ourselves in our weakness, but run into the throne room of grace that we would find help.

And then if the weakness stays, if it doesn't go away asking the Holy Spirit to help us learn what contentment means in that. And then I also ask people when they're doing this I want them after they've attempted to rewrite some additional goals I want them to journal what that was like for them.

You know, you came in with one set of goals. Jeremy's pointing you in a very different direction. Did that make you upset? Yeah. Did that make you feel he doesn't see you or understand you? That he's insensitive? Was it comforting? Did you realize that... Was there a light bulb that came on that, Man, I haven't even been thinking of...

These very important things in my struggle So I do want as they're engaging the scriptures, you know, hebrews 412 says that it exposes the thoughts and intentions of the heart So as they're engaging it talk to me about your thoughts and intentions as you were as you were working through those goals Yeah, that's really good That's good.

That's good So what would be the next sort of step in giving them that homework two or three sessions in like where would you go with that? let's say They were taking it home. Cause like in the last podcast you had mentioned in the moment, in the session, they're fine.

But when they, you know, when they go approach the battle alone, like what comes back, how do you address sort of, I guess, progress in that goal setting and then exposing for the purpose of grace in the gospel?

So the further we go into this this care for anxiety. Which is kind of a systematic process that I'm working on. The further we get in, we're going to get into very specific methodologies to apply when you're having an anxious moment or an obsessive thought. This right here is just setting us up with a structure.

So that when I, if you go out and you start applying these things that the scriptures would point us to do when there's anxiety it just helps us circle back to our goals like as you did that and you stumbled epically, like it was just like you did not succeed in any way and anxiety actually went up or something.

how. Would you gauge yourself in terms of trusting the Lord, even in that did you, Because that would just compound it because you failed. Yes. And so the failure, we want them to recognize I can trust God even in this. remember this whole thing is sovereignly enthroned, and he is writing the timetable of where this anxiety struggle goes, if it alleviates, if it doesn't.

That's under the sovereign power of, Again, the most loving being in the universe. So I want, I want to continue to push them back, you know. Where does trusting the Lord or where was that a challenge? It's okay with this, this office space right here is a place where if you didn't trust him at all in that, let's talk about that.

And then what does that say? What does that reveal about you in that? The second one would would ask them, did you run to your sympathetic high priest in the midst of your failure? Or did you just get frustrated with your high priest because he's not doing what you want him to do when you want him to do it?

Or did you? Beat yourself up because you weren't successful in the method. I want them to learn and get into this habit. Remember, we talked about habits as part of the anxiety loop. This is one simple habit. What does it look like to run to the throne of grace in my weakness and experience the grace that is there?

That becomes a big part and a theme all throughout. We come back to these goals and questions often. And then this idea of contentment, you know, what's keeping you, if you really got upset about this or you're frustrated that the Holy Spirit isn't just working this thing out of you immediately what's getting in the way of your contentment?

What desires are you may be coveting to the point that it's actually making things worse and contentment doesn't mean I love my anxiety and I think it's awesome that I get to rest in this because God is with me. Contentment is this is where I am and there's a trustworthy God on this journey with me and I don't have to covet relief because the more I covet relief.

the more bitter I become, potentially the more angry, anxious I become, angry I become. So these goals set the stage for the rest of the process when we get into more practical methodologies, because this isn't a formula. It's just not. And so there's going to be ups and downs. And I would even ask them.

Maybe look at some other verses that we could bring into this if in addition to these three, but these three I think are very significant for them to continue to mull through In their successes and in their failures in the process. No, it's really good because it's something you said a moment ago you know, obviously pursuing that relief and The failure is pursuing the relief and not the reliever.

That's right, and so Every failure is another opportunity of grace. To your point last episode in Galatians 5. 1 and that freedom and being able to realize they're free to grow in that. And actually look to the reliever for the relief even though it doesn't necessarily relieve them.

So it's that paradoxical nature of The object that we're really, truly seeking, to alleviate, if he doesn't alleviate it, but do I still find comfort in him and embracing that grace that he has for me, like you quoted, and we talked about in the second episode, second Corinthians and Paul's thorn in the flesh and yes, that his weakness and God's strength is made perfect in Paul's weakness.

And I actually appreciate the fact that we don't know what the thorn is. Yeah. Yeah. Because it allows us to realize, it's not about what the thorn is, it's about the fact that we all have those thorns and it's part of trusting in him and seeing grace grow because that's always the hard part is, how do you find grace when you don't have the relief?

Yeah. it just becomes a very very difficult battle and understanding how God just exposes grace to us in ways. Yeah. It just, I don't know. It can get pretty deep, pretty fast. And it's difficult, and anxiety is always the first one to expose the fact that we're not finding God's grace.

Yes. You know, when I was in the throes of my own struggles with anxiety, which is much better now, I mean, it's like night and day, but when it was really rough, especially at night and the anxiety would come. I found myself quoting Psalm 23 and personalizing it to whatever my fear was. You know, the Lord is my shepherd.

maybe I'm fearing something bad happening at work because a client is mad at me or whatever. The Lord is my shepherd. How does that apply? And just to, just kind of even envisioning the shepherd and his protection for me. I shall not want. And I would just go. Phrase by phrase and just commune with Jesus, really.

And just recognize and just the idea. I remember when this first became something that I was doing to draw closer to the Lord, just the idea that the shepherd is with me in this 'cause anxiety, you always feel like, Ooh, I've gotta survive and it's all on me. When in reality, just turning and recognizing, wait, the shepherd is there and he's there to protect me, and he's there to just simply be with me.

Even as I walk through the valley of the shadow of death and this idea of trusting God and running to Christ, not needing to get rid of my anxiety, that's, I've just realized that's not what I want to do. I just want to commune with this beautiful truth and the Savior and the shepherd and the peace of Christ.

It would, it would come. I mean, sometimes it would take a bit, but I would. I often experience this, this beautiful comfort, not in getting rid of anxiety or in whatever I was fearing not happening, but in just this realization of the closeness of Christ when I was wrestling in such a deep way with fear.

the difficult nature of that process because it's like when anxiety grows. We've become more and more isolated because we believe we need to have control over something and it's weird, it's like control and isolation they just feed each other.

It's interesting how that, anyway, so I just, as you were talking about that, I was just kind of wrestling with that idea and I couldn't reconcile it. Yeah. That's interesting. the next thing, setting goals and helping people set. Goals that are centered in the priorities of Scripture, I think is very important.

Not demeaning their goal of getting help with anxiety and maybe even those symptoms going away that's great. But we want to make sure the central goals are the priorities of the scripture. Yeah Which is communion with God. It's trusting in God. It's embracing his gospel. It's glorifying God in all things And then I always want to check in on a person's motivation Which this this kind of parallels with goals somewhat so my goals are formed by my motives and what I want.

Yeah And I love this word, I probably use it way too much that we are teleological creatures. Teleological, I like to just simply put it it means that our hearts are always aimed at an ultimate target. And that target is what we feel is the good. The good life, so to speak or what is the greatest good of the moment.

And it's so easy as fallen people when we're struggling with something like a panic attack to simply defer to the greatest good being relief. Yeah. And that's understandable. That's totally understandable. But those moments are a good time to assess ourselves maybe after the fact. Yeah, it's very challenging.

It's typically gonna be after the fact. Yeah, probably. But it's a. A revelation of what is, what do we consider our greatest good and the greatest good is, is God's glory. And so we want to always make sure that the glory of the Lord is central with any issue that we're working with, whether it be anxiety, marriage or anything else.

But when we come to motives, I, I want to go to Matthew 6, 19 through 21. And this is our Lord, and he says, Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in and steal.

For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. Jesus is talking about this reality. Jesus puts it in the form of treasure. What you want most in a given moment shows you what you value and treasure, and it will capture and rule your heart. And very often with anxiety, those could be.

Somewhat involuntary. It's not like we're just choosing that. It's just that's where we are in our spiritual life. But we need to become aware of that so we can do something about it. So just five things that, that I think are helpful for anxiety from what Jesus said. One is fixating on or over, overvaluing earthly things makes one vulnerable.

to being robbed. So overvaluing safety, security or an anxious free life as our ultimate good robs us from the possibility of ever feeling safe, secure or at peace in the world. And this will rob us of any sense of meaning or hope in the process. So as you were saying a minute ago, if, if safety, security, or anxiety free living is our, if that's what we're fixating on, we're actually setting ourselves up to be robbed of ever experiencing that.

Because we live in a fallen world and there are, there are dangers and there are threats and anxiety is, is something we all experience from time to time. Fixating or overvaluing earthly things makes one vulnerable to a life of futility. Hmm. Fixating on those symptoms as our ultimate good or most important end will prove futile when methods and techniques fail.

So we're going through the counseling process we're gonna apply biblical truth but again it's not a formula and it when it doesn't get rid of the things that we're overvaluing then it just makes us feel like we're wasting our time. Why do counseling anymore? Because it's not working. But a transcendent target protects us from being robbed.

Valuing the learning process of trusting God's goodness, and that is a process, and his sovereignty as our primary target protects us from feeling robbed if safety and security are threatened. When our aim becomes more and more glorifying God by an increased faith through the experience of anxiety, paradoxically a threat to our felt safety or security becomes a catalyst in promoting our sanctification.

It was a very different world. So now it's not so much about getting rid of anxiety, it's growing through my anxiety in learning faith. And very often that is going to require Some experiential things facing our fears, so to speak. And then a transcendent target protects us from living a life of futility.

When our target is an increased faith and trust in an eternal, trustworthy, loving, and faithful God, when methods fail and anxiety emerges, we will maintain a sense of meaning and purpose in the journey. Our final aim is no longer an anxiety free life. which will inevitably ebb and flow, but our aim shifts to experiencing the embrace of a safe and secure father in a world where safety and security are never guaranteed.

So Jesus, this is, you know, earthly things versus heavenly things. It's kind of where I'm drawing that from what Christ was saying. And what we value most in a given moment or experience will enslave or capture our heart. At the end of the day and that will drive us and so it's learning through anxiety.

What tends to enslave me and then Really applying the put off put on discipline habit That is promoted in scripture In which you actually have given us a good resource on the putting on and putting off that's in our ABC Resources that you that that someone could actually refer to and utilize Yeah, that's good.

And it actually it would also resemble second Corinthians We destroy our agreements in every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God and take every thought captive to obey Christ. Yes, it's good. We typically use that, when we're trying to address lust and those sorts of things.

But at the end of the day, it's those anxious thoughts truly are against the knowledge of God, because what have we done? we've hoodwinked the position of who's on the throne of our hearts, going back to that point, that teleological reality of. All right, who's on, the throne of your heart and what's the result of those thoughts and I think that's Christ's rule over all things now in a lot of sense, but it also includes the immaterial or thoughts and those things.

And so, yes, it's actually a very startling reality especially. To somebody who's struggling with anxiety and realizing that, those thoughts are actually at odds with God. Going back to your point about experiencing the presence of God. Yes. Because I can't technically experience the presence of God if the knowledge of God is not present as well.

That's right. So, that's good. Awesome. Any concluding thoughts? Well, just one more little tidbit here that's helpful for people in the starting. So right now we're at the beginning of the process of a counseling situation. Yeah. Where we're setting goals, we're identifying motives, we're highlighting the beauty of having a transcendent target, which is God in His glory over and above an earthly target.

Yeah. But also helping people just evaluate the pros and cons of the change process. when a person decides to engage the struggle and get rid of some of the old habits that have made them feel safe. So avoiding crowds or whatever it might be. I like to have people just look at four quadrants.

One is the pros of change. That I will become more trusting in the Lord, that I will learn to glorify him, that maybe I will find contentment that maybe some of this anxiety will subside and I will not be so threatened by things that I'm afraid of. The cost, though, can be sacrificing some, some things that have become idols.

Sacrificing control, sacrificing the demand for safety and security. Sacrificing. The safety of seclusion and all of those. So I want people to realize as you do this, we're going to challenge you. We were going to push you into the things that you try to run from. And that might feel like a cost, but in reality, it feels like a cost, but it's not.

And I just want them to be aware of this, this, there could be some challenges here. And then I do the same on staying the same. What, what do you, what is a perceived benefit of just staying like this? Well, I guess I can just. Hide out in my house all day and never go anywhere. And that makes me feel good.

But also, what is the cost of doing that? I stay enslaved. I'm not glorifying God. I'm not, I'm not experiencing the love and grace of God in the midst of weakness. Those kind of things. And in community. That's right. That's good. That is good. Well, that is it. That's it. We will wrap up this four part miniseries on anxiety.

Jeremy, thank you. For, for walking with us through this and I pray that again those of you who are listening and walking through this, that maybe this is something you can use right now in real time. Maybe you've got counselees where you're stuck and you're kind of working through some of these things and hopefully this was a benefit to you.

And again, thank you for listening. If you have any questions, concerns, or topics you'd like to hear and talk about, please email us at topics at speakthetruth. org. We'll see you guys next time.

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