Mike: 00:08

Welcome to Speak the Truth, a podcast devoted to giving biblical truth for educating, equipping, and encouraging the individual and local church in counseling and discipleship.

Mike: 00:19

Hello. Hello. Hello. We are running strong on our miniseries, Discipleship and Counseling Cultivating Spiritual Rhythms in session. As we're continuing to be in studio here, I've got Shauna and Jeremy with me.

Mike: 00:33

How we doing?

Shauna: 00:34

Yo yo yo.

Jeremy: 00:35

Doing great.

Mike: 00:35

Doing great. Ready to jump into this next episode. Alright. So if you haven't listened to the previous episode, it was an introduction to basically observing the need for spiritual rhythms where we're trying to lay the foundation why spiritual rhythms matter in counseling and just the as a result of the lack of discipleship. So I would encourage you to go check out that episode before jumping into this episode unless you just really wanted to get to this episode because you need a bible study method.

Mike: 01:01

So that's what we're gonna be talking about, engaging with God, teaching bible study methods, and counseling. The importance of bible study and different study methods that we can use. What study methods do you guys personally use?

Shauna: 01:14

So I use, the TAP method, which is TAP truth application and prayer. And so as you're studying the passage, it's thinking through, you know, what what is the truth of the scripture? What is it what is it saying? And I have a list of questions that we can put in the show notes for that. And then I moved to application, like, what is this truth revealing about God and how I am and to apply this to my life?

Shauna: 01:37

And then can't do that without the holy spirit and praying. And so just obviously just praying to the lord ending and praying to the lord about what that truth was, how, lord, I need help to apply that to my life. And so I just truth application and prayer.

Mike: 01:52

That's good.

Jeremy: 01:53

Same here.

Mike: 01:53

Yeah. That's the 1 you practice. So I practice, and there's and there's others. I'm sure some of our listeners are like, what about this 1 or that 1? I'm sure there's a few of those out there.

Mike: 02:01

But the ones that we're highlighting today are gonna be the TAP method like Shauna mentioned and then Jeremy confirmed. I use this acronym is HEAR, h e a r. It's highlight, explain, apply, and respond. And I actually picked that up from Robbie Gallady in his ministry, and I'll I'll put his information in there. He's got a lot of good stuff on that HEAR method, and so I'll share that.

Mike: 02:25

But that's a really good method as well. And then, really, the the point of study methods is to to help us engage, really, to help us understand who god is, to help us understand ourselves in light of who god is, and then also others. Any thoughts, guys?

Jeremy: 02:39

I think what you're saying, when you mentioned the vertical and the horizontal, is that engaging the scriptures isn't just like reading a novel Right. In the horizontal world. Engaging the scriptures has a very significant vertical component to it in that we are engaging the wisdom of God. We're seeking the knowledge of God. We're seeking to know God more deeply.

Jeremy: 03:01

Everything that we're doing in the horizontal is always connected to the vertical. Mhmm.

Mike: 03:06

Yeah. That's good.

Shauna: 03:07

At the end of the day, you are reading the narratives in the way of saying this isn't these these are true stories. Right? So it's very exciting. Although, we've just kinda finished some of the books of the Bible where there's lots of war and death, and so I'm just

Mike: 03:20

like We were we were reading through Judges. Oh. And now we're in first Samuel.

Shauna: 03:24

Yeah. And then, obviously, there's a lot about that that's disheartening, but you just have to see God in the midst of that and and what he's doing. But so you're you're reading those narratives, knowing these are real stories, that these aren't just kind of made up, and then and considering those of what does this really mean for me today, and how is my faith as strong and bold and courageous as those of our, you know, brothers and sisters in the Old Testament. But then when you read the truths of the New Testament and you're you're seeking that truth out of what am I observing? What is this text communicating to me?

Shauna: 03:55

What's the truth here about God and his character and his nature? And how, Lord, can you teach me more about who you are and then what that looks like to my life practically. So it always starts with the vertical and then goes horizontal. I even say that from a prayer standpoint. We observe what's going on horizontally and then we take that to the Lord in prayer.

Shauna: 04:14

But when we can start first vertically with the Lord, that helps us then just naturally live out what we need to from that horizontal perspective. And so reading the Bible isn't something that we just do. It's it's it's a part of just literally our everyday living. Right? Engaging and getting to know God, engaging and being reminded of Jesus and and what he did for us, but then obviously always praying to the holy spirit, bring to understanding that the truth that I'm learning here.

Shauna: 04:43

Help me to know and to be able to live out and and, obviously, the holy spirit helping it to be applied to my heart.

Mike: 04:49

The lack of intentional discipleship is a lot of times, counselees come in and, you know, before we hit the record button, we were talking about several different things. But 1 of the things we were talking about, I think, has application here and that a lot of times when counselees come in here, they're they're looking at scripture symptomatically. Right? They're wanting to go somewhere in the same way we like a topical sermon about a particular subject or topic. But we're not really getting into unfortunately, our counselees, a lot of times, aren't really looking at this as the word of God is what shapes my heart and my mind.

Shauna: 05:24

Mhmm.

Mike: 05:24

And that's why I'm supposed to go to it. Last episode, I, you know, I shared Hebrews chapter 4 verses twelve and thirteen, and that's really kinda what's going on here. And I and I think that's a discipline that we thankfully get to be honored to share with our our counselees is helping them develop those things because it can be overwhelming. Right? Because they are they're just and I'm not you know, not to sound judgmental.

Mike: 05:49

It's just that, you know, they're coming in, and it's kinda symptomatic. And it's not we want them to experience God. We want them to have that relationship with God, which is why reading the word is so crucial.

Jeremy: 05:59

Something that you're pointing out here in this particular episode, which is critical in terms of our roles as biblical counselors, is is not assuming that people know how to study the Bible.

Mike: 06:09

Mhmm. Yeah. Mhmm.

Jeremy: 06:10

And that part of our counseling is gonna be teaching them. Like, the probably 90% of the people that come come to see me would not know these acronyms, these, Bible study methodologies. Yep. And so that's a big part of our role as biblical counselors.

Shauna: 06:24

What a sweet what a sweet role to play.

Mike: 06:26

That's what I'm saying.

Shauna: 06:27

I remember I have I had a woman who was, much older than me, and she had been in church for thirty years and had never learned how to study God's word. And it was just such a joy to be able to see her where she would show up at my next sessions with all her colored pencils and her journal and just say, I have never interacted with God's word like this. And what a sweet time. Like, it it was biblical counseling that I got the opportunity to be able to to share that with her. So

Jeremy: 06:54

Mhmm.

Shauna: 06:54

That's a great point, Jeremy.

Jeremy: 06:56

I walked into my daughter's room last week. She's a freshman. And we go to church. She's very involved, but she was like, dad, I'm reading first Corinthians, and I have no idea what's going on here. Yeah.

Jeremy: 07:06

Which is just an opportunity to say, you know, there there is a profound need for every believer to really know how to engage the Bible in a way that that makes it meaningful.

Mike: 07:16

Yeah. And I think and and it goes in the context of consumerism in in in our church. Like, I love study Bibles. They're super helpful. But the problem is is people don't they rely on the study Bible to answer their thinking.

Mike: 07:31

And and I don't understand this versus putting in the time. It's kinda like what happens with our, you know, being directional where we rely on maps so we don't have a sense of direction. It's kinda like that spiritually when we read God's word.

Shauna: 07:42

Since no one we don't have a video in here yet. I just want y'all to know, as he's saying this, in front of me directly is a study bible that is wide open that I absolutely love because I am a learner, and I love reading them. But I don't stay there. But it is very a helpful tool. And commentaries Hey.

Shauna: 08:02

I like, I love preaching the word. It's my favorite commentary right now, so that's a good 1 to buy.

Mike: 08:07

I I that's what I'm saying. I'm not I'm not knocking study Bibles. They're super helpful. I'm just saying the temptation and the consequence of a study Bible is they do all the work for us, and we don't put in that, which is why having a study method because that's the thing. A study Bible doesn't give you a Bible study method.

Jeremy: 08:26

Mhmm.

Mike: 08:26

It just it answers the questions that, you know, the who, what, where, when, why, and how. And it kinda answers some of those questions, maybe gives you a little cultural background, but it doesn't give you an engagement Yeah. Of God's word. Yeah. Personal engagement.

Mike: 08:39

Exactly.

Shauna: 08:40

Is this a good time to mention AI? Oh, yeah. Michael's really big into AI now, and

Jeremy: 08:47

I'm like

Mike: 08:48

It it's helpful.

Shauna: 08:49

Is that helping you think, or is it writing it for you?

Mike: 08:52

It depends. It depends on your prompt. It depends on how specific your prompt is. Yeah. Are you giving it enough information, of your own words to kinda reorient, rewrite, restructure what you're giving it?

Mike: 09:04

Or are you wanting it to go and grab and pull some other large language models and theology and everything else that it's pulling? Mhmm. Or is it using your own content? That is another topic that I would love to have.

Shauna: 09:15

No. We're not talking about that on seek the truth. Yeah. People need to vote on that.

Mike: 09:20

So you

Shauna: 09:21

put a vote out there on whether that should be an episode or not.

Mike: 09:24

Yeah. I'm sorry. Like, when we start talking about AI, so you open it up. So now I got I'm a say this and this is it. But I think that's if we're gonna get, like, that about AI, then we should be consistent about that in the same way that we are about just technology in general.

Mike: 09:38

Like, everything that we consume technologically like, AI can be used in a lazy way. It could be used in a in a, you know, in a in a not good way, but it can also be used in a good way. Mhmm. Can it can help organizations big time. And for nonprofit organizations who don't have the revenue to hire people, if you learn how to use it, it it actually can be a tremendous help for that.

Mike: 10:01

But that was a good point, Shauna. And I I I would like to have a an episode where we actually focus on AI.

Shauna: 10:08

You know, 1 of the things as far as, you know, study methods that has been helpful to me when you actually do kind of lay out that well, for me, again, it's TAP method. But when you when I'm doing the observations and focusing on the interpretation of things in that truth section of the Bible study method, 1 of the things that I've really been able to grow as a believer is, you know, by doing word studies and using Blue Letter Bible to be able to say, okay, do I really understand the depth of this word? I mean, you know, like, the the last episode, I couldn't even pronounce presumptuous. Right? It was like, I struggle with pronouncing words and sometimes understanding them.

Shauna: 10:42

Michael's actually really gifted at that, and so I'm thankful to be able to kinda lean on him a lot. But to be able to go to Blue Letter Bible and study some of these words and kind of seeing, you know, the other areas it's used in scripture and how it's used has been very helpful to bring to draw out extra meaning of that. And then realizing the importance of prepositions, you know, 1 preposition can change the way that a verse is written and how important that 1 preposition is of and how that's meaningful in in in the study of scripture and then obviously how we apply that to our life. And so having that time to be able to do that is is really important. And I think in a lot of ways, you know, most people are learners.

Shauna: 11:19

I mean, sometimes we're just kind of surviving with life, but, like, how you talked about consumer consumerism. Right? Like, we have this this desire and eagerness to learn. I think it's more about, like, in our help as a biblical counselor and helping them develop the spiritual rhythms. It's the thought process of of empowering them and equipping them to be able to do the thinking themselves.

Shauna: 11:40

Like, where I I get your point on the study bible and the commentaries. We want those tools and and how sweet it is that we even have these resources and Google and all these things, Logos Bible that are tools that God has given us to be able to learn that much more and at a rapid pace and have things just at our fingertips that actually a lot of countries don't even have. Right? But we can't go so far where we're not interacting with the scripture and allowing the Holy Spirit specifically to say, Lord, give me wisdom in this scripture. What does this mean for me specifically?

Shauna: 12:10

And and when we're re when we're taking time to study the Bible where it goes from where Jeremy was saying, you're just reading it like a novel versus the study aspect of what we're talking about here in the Bible study method is providing that space for our heart to just listen and to reflect on. I think we miss out on meditating on the verse and just sometimes I'm just sitting there not writing anything but just thinking about what this passage is saying and and maybe it even applies to someone else that I'm trying to encourage in life. Right? That's a my community around me or my family, you know, my children and not just about me and my own heart. But just taking that time to listen to the Lord and creating that space to say, you know, holy spirit, give me discernment in this.

Shauna: 12:52

What is the wisdom here? Help me grow in that way. So it's on being a learner, but not just from the other people's thoughts and study, but just being equipped on my own. And I think for women, we can have a lot of insecurity in there, you know, in that in a lot of ways. And so Bible studies that you that, you know, we have now in the church for women's ministry, there's a lot of questions and thinking that's done for us.

Shauna: 13:16

Right. And our culture has kind of grown in that way where we almost expect it. If there's not a Bible study that has a reflection question, then, you know, I don't know how to think like that. And the goal, I think, is is when you come to a simple method of truth application prayer, you don't have all these questions set aside for you. You're just going to the text, and you're depending on the Holy Spirit to be able to draw that out for you, to give you that wisdom, to give you the the truth of what that text is saying.

Shauna: 13:41

Specifically, now how do I apply that to my life? And then, obviously, lord, I need your help in that. So I don't know. Anyway, that's just my thoughts.

Mike: 13:48

Oh, it's good. Good. Jeremy, any any concluding thoughts?

Jeremy: 13:51

Yeah. Something that you actually mentioned in our notes, just the importance of not just explaining this to a client, but actually practicing it in session, getting them to think through the things themselves.

Shauna: 14:04

Yes. Yes. So, like, those counsel through the scriptures that you can get from, you know, the ABC resources that we've, This is our sixth one, by the way, going on to this conference. Wow. Can you believe that?

Shauna: 14:14

No. Our sixth and we're doing God's attributes, actually, that will be released this year. But the ones prior, 1 of the things that it it it kind of as it guides you through it is you ask them the questions first. Have them read the passage out loud before you it kinda gives you teaching points of here's kind of a counselor. We wanna help you to kinda understand this text in a way to apply it in a counseling session.

Shauna: 14:35

But first, we need to help the counselee draw that out. What is it that's standing out to you? What is God revealing to you? How does this how is this meaningful or not? What do you not understand?

Shauna: 14:43

And just really interacting with them first before I then go into saying, here's what I'm thinking. Here's what God's revealed to me. And not even presenting myself as I'm the know it all. Like, I'm the 1 who knows exactly what this is saying, but but even communicating that away in a hue in just a a humble, let's grow together. Let's talk about this together.

Shauna: 15:03

This is this is this is what I understand about it. This is how I've landed there. And just having that open discussion, I think, breaks barriers in the fact of helping them grow and think themselves. And you're so right. Like, encouraging that, Jeremy, having that opportunity in a counseling session to be able to encourage conversations like that is so good.

Mike: 15:22

Yeah. Because it helps celebrate those wins and the progress that they're making.

Shauna: 15:25

Gosh. It's some of the funnest part about it where it's, yes, it's about what you're struggling with, but, hey, how are we just going to God together?

Mike: 15:33

Yeah. Because in the the interesting thing to that, right, because how many times do our counselees go to bible studies or whatever events or things that are happening at the church, and more than likely, we're dealing with a person who's not speaking up and contributing a whole lot. So they already feel embarrassed at that in that environment. So when they come here

Shauna: 15:54

Yeah.

Mike: 15:54

They're still just as, you know, embarrassed because they've been going to church a long time. And it's it's easier to just play dumb than it is to like, I should do better than that or feel better than that. And so it just allows us to enter into their weakness and and grow with them and get them excited about that.

Jeremy: 16:12

Yes. And on the application piece, you know, as they're learning, okay. Here's here's how I would apply this truth in my life, we've got to remember it's not just a Sunday school. We're in counseling, and so we always want to open the door to say, okay, You're understanding the application. What challenges might this present?

Jeremy: 16:35

Where where might your heart even resist

Shauna: 16:38

Yeah.

Jeremy: 16:38

Or struggle with this application

Mike: 16:40

to Right.

Jeremy: 16:41

Make sure we're having those conversations.

Mike: 16:42

Yeah. Because the application isn't reduced to the ought to's. It's the struggle and note. Because, I mean, obviously, most of the people that come to us, they know what they ought to do, but they're not doing it. That's right.

Mike: 16:54

Alright. So Woah. So it's kinda I don't say that judgmentally. I say that in just the transformative nature Yeah. Yeah.

Mike: 17:00

Of realizing, like, that's the work of the Lord, and we enter into that with him to that point that to what you mentioned a moment ago, we don't arrive. We're we haven't arrived fully. Now we may be a little further along, or we may be practicing it longer, and so we have a little bit more working experience in it. So it's kinda like anything else. If I have more working experience in something, how great would it be for me to empower the my brother or sister who's lacking in it to get them where they should be?

Mike: 17:29

Because more than likely, if they're excited about it and they're feeling good about it, that's a discipling opportunity because guess what they're gonna go do is they're gonna wanna share that because they feel good about it because they they feel like they're learning and growing. Yes. So I was

Shauna: 17:41

saying, woah. Woah. Because it was a conviction. Like, I need to work out. You know?

Shauna: 17:45

So it's like doing those things you don't wanna do, but you know you need to do type of thing.

Jeremy: 17:49

Yeah. And and studying the Bible is studying a living document

Mike: 17:53

Yep.

Jeremy: 17:53

That exposes the attitude and intentions of the heart so we can never forget them.

Mike: 17:58

Yep. There's that Hebrews chapter 4, baby. Yeah.

Shauna: 18:00

Yes.

Mike: 18:00

That's great.

Shauna: 18:01

Incredibly important.

Mike: 18:02

Awesome. Again, thank you guys for listening. We look forward to your inquiries on other topics that we can record in 2025. Remember, you can email us at topics@speakthetruth.org. Thank you for listening.

Mike: 18:14

We'll catch you guys next

Jeremy: 18:15

time.